| Author |
Topic: Mac studio |
Bruce Griffin
From:
Iowa City, Iowa
|
Posted 30 Mar 2002 3:22 pm |
|
| Talking about a Mac G4/Pro Tools recording set up with one of the large music dealers; anybody else using this for project studio purposes, and is it working well for you? Thanks! |
|
|
 |
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 31 Mar 2002 12:01 am
|
|
Are you talking about the digi 0-1 or the full on Pro tools ?
Pro Tools with a G4 is pretty much the industry standard for pro studios I work in in NYC. As far as I can tell a majority of you hear these days from CDs, soundtracks and jingles has spent at least part of its life in a Pro Tools environment
The Digi 0-1 is more on the project studio level but is still great stuff. Plenty of great Cds are being made everyday with that set up. A friend in Chicago just put out a couple Cds and is making money and touring from it. All he used was his G4 with a digi 0-1. He didn't even crack the manual.
Bob[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 31 March 2002 at 12:09 AM.] |
|
|
|
Bruce Griffin
From:
Iowa City, Iowa
|
Posted 31 Mar 2002 6:44 am
|
|
| I believe it's the 001 version, not the full Pro Tools, Bob. I want a system that has the capability to do just what you mentioned, record and edit small projects for myself and other local muscisns, and produce work I can be proud of. I'll probably have less money in everything than a pro studio has in a few mikes. If someone's really ready to move to a higher level, they'll be getting out of here and moving to a bigger city, and can go with a pro studio for their next project. |
|
|
|
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 31 Mar 2002 9:17 am
|
|
Bruce,
If you are going to use midi or want to record several tracks at the same time you might check out the Motu stuff along with a bunch other new interface/software recording systems. Also because mac has a new generation of G4s out you can find amazing deals on barely used old version G4s with the 001 set up already on them on Ebay .
If you are dealing with Sweetwater they will treat you fine. You can pay less money for used gear but sometimes the headaches are not worth it.
Bob
|
|
|
|
Bill Llewellyn
From:
San Jose, CA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2002 10:03 am
|
|
I agree that MOTU www.motu.com has a great reputation. I use their MIDI sequencing software which also allows me 8 tracks of digital audio. "Digital Performer" is their big package and uses an external digital audio unit.
I've dealt with Sweetwater in the past, too. Service seemed pretty good, but if you want to get a good deal you had better know how to negotiate well (I'm not so great at that). Their starting prices are not all that low.
------------------
Bill L | My steel page | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50? |
|
|
|
Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2002 12:26 pm
|
|
| The downside of the Digi 001 is that you are limited to recording only 8 tracks at a time and total track playback count is only 24.That may suit you fine but even on just a basic tracking session I regularly cut live drums,bass,guitar,keys and scratch vocal.That usually puts me into at least 12 tracks on the first pass and I often end up w/32 or more in total.To get that capability in a Pro Tools System is gonna cost you around $20K and for that reason I elected to go with a G4/MOTU rig.For a total investment of around $6K,I got a G4 450 w/UWSCSI card,18 gig 10,000rpm Cheetah drive,the DP3 software,a MOTU 2408 which is an interface between my 4 DA-88s/ADATS and the computer,a MOTU 24i expander which is a 24 channel 24bit A/D converter,and a MOTU MTP AV which is a timecode syncronizer and MIDI interface.With this rig I can cut 24 simultaneous tracks of 16,20 or 24 bit 44.1 or 48 audio if I so choose.Like everybody else,I'm about to cough up another $3K to replace my G4 450 w/a G4 dual 1 gig machine which will make Digital Performer run screaming fast - essentially out performing all but the most expensive TDM versions of Pro Tools.And speaking of dual processors,and you don't hear much about this,but the Pro Tools Digi 001 software/hardware will not work w/a dual processor computer.My good friend Cody Bryant went out and bought a dual 800 G4 and and then found out he had to disable one of the processors to run Po' Tools.Also,the midi sequencer part of Pro Tools Digi 001 fairly much sucks compared to almost every other system - Cubase,DP3,Cakewalk,Logic,etc.That wouldn't matter much to me because I don't do that much midi stuff these days.In spite of these caveats,I still may have to get one myself because everybody else has it and as a studio open for business,I need to be able to work on outside Pro Tools projects. -MJ- |
|
|
|
Bruce Griffin
From:
Iowa City, Iowa
|
Posted 31 Mar 2002 3:22 pm
|
|
That's exactly the sort of info I was looking for on weakness and strengths. I also figure on exactly what you say; about 12 tracks to start with and up to 24 or so to finish. Maybe a decent mixer and a Mackie 24 track HD system would be a better core system. I got the impression the system would handle that easily, but not so I guess.
Thanks! Bruce |
|
|
|
Matt Steindl
From:
New Orleans, LA, USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2002 3:49 pm
|
|
Here is my .02! I do not have as much experience as some of the other cats here, but I have been an avid home recording freak for years and years, so take it or leave it.
The computer/software based recording platforms are basically evolving at a lightspeed pace, so does it make sense to put all that money into something that is going to be a dinosaur in a year? Why not buy a stand alone workstation system w/ 12 tracks at 24 bit, and get a super powerful PC or MAC as well. Get to know your workstation inside and out, and this can be the core of your studio. As the platforms improve and change, you will always have your workstation to fall back on.
I track to a Tascam 788 and then dump the audio onto my PC, and use tons of different programs to master and effect the tracks. I know it is an extra step, but for some reason, I prefer recording to a unit that I know well, and is pretty easy to master. I come from the 4 track portastudio mindframe, so using a machine that I can work quickly and w/ confidence is a huge assurance for me.
What is to say that my workstation wont be a dinosaur next month? Nothing, it WILL be a dinosaur, but it will be a dinosaur that I know and love.
Workstations and computer recording both have their pros and cons, so if you can afford it do both and find a happy medium, why not get both!
------------------
Mattman in "The Big Sleazy"-:
S-10 Dekley, Suitcase Fender Rhodes, B-bender Les Paul
|
|
|
|
Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
|
Posted 31 Mar 2002 11:53 pm
|
|
| The Mackie is a great way to go but the down side of that is the fairly basic level of audio manipulation that you're stuck with.It's really just a recording device with cut and paste editing so you still need a mixer and outboard gear.I too,am concerned about the dinosaur factor and there are some sho'nuf dinosaurs grazing around my studio.I still have an Atari 1040ST computer that was once state-of-the-art for midi sequencing and it still works as good as it ever did but I saw one at a yard sale in Burbank for 15 dollars.Hell,I still got an analog 16 track machine that I couldn't give away and every once in a while somebody comes along with an old tape they want to transfer or mix - plus I got a closet full myself so I guess I'll keep it.My 4 16 bit DA-88s w/$2K worth of new heads are next in line for obsolesence....... I've heard it said that the way to make a small fortune in the recording studio business is to start with a large fortune. -MJ- [This message was edited by Michael Johnstone on 31 March 2002 at 11:55 PM.] |
|
|
|
Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
|
Posted 1 Apr 2002 9:32 am
|
|
| I tend to agree with the MOTU interface choice. I used Digidesign software and hardware for a number of years and found there is more "bang for the buck" with other manufacturer's equipment. The new firewire interfaces they make are pretty reasonable. The 44/48KHz interface can be had for about $800 and the 896(44-96KHz) interface for about $1100. I use Cubase VST/32 software. You might want to look into either Cubase VST or Emagic Logic because they both support VST plugins, which are widely available. ProTools doesn't support it which means that plugin effects usually aren't as plentiful or cheap. If you are planning on doing any MIDI control, Protools is not a good choice. Their MIDI implementation is weak. Hope that gives you some things to think about. |
|
|
|
Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
|
Posted 1 Apr 2002 10:43 am
|
|
| All you MOTU 2408 owners listen up.Guitar Center and other retailers are blowing out the discontinued MOTU 24i expander for $399 - I guess because it's "only" 24/48. It piggybacks into the same MOTU 324 PCI card that comes w/the 2408 and then shows up on the Studio Configure menu as additional input options. It was a good choice for me because I already had the original 2408 and altho that thing has 24 channels of bi-directional TDIF and Lightpipe,it only has 8 16 bit A/D inputs.Although I found out that I can send up to 24 channels of audio to my DA-88s and just put them in input and without rolling tape,simply use their(great sounding)A/D converters to record to Digital Performer via TDIF/2408,it's still only 16 bit cause the DA-88s are only 16 bit.You can do that trick w/ADATs too,BTW.Buying the 24i allows me to keep what I got and at the same time step up(cheaply)to 24 simultaneous analog inputs at 24/48 which is plenty good enough resolution for the girls I go out with. -MJ- |
|
|
|
chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
|
Posted 1 Apr 2002 10:54 am
|
|
| Quote: |
| The computer/software based recording platforms are basically evolving at a lightspeed pace, so does it make sense to put all that money into something that is going to be a dinosaur in a year?.... but it will be a dinosaur that I know and love. |
Matt, I believe, makes an important point about evolving technology. In that, do you constantly run out and buy the latest or do you upgrade only when something comes out that you really need?
I use Sonic Solutions Sonic Studio, that uses a G3 running OS 8.1 (and I'm planning on going back to 7.6) for a platform. This is not a system I would recommend, because it's ungodly expensive and very unfriendly to learn. This was the best there was 6 years ago and for what I do, it's more than enough. The main criticism I have is that it doesn't accept plug-ins, so on another drive running OS 9.1, I have Peak with the Waves Gold Bundle and I have to dump files back and forth. It's a little inconvenient, and the G3 has just enough 'horsepower' to run one plug-in at a time, but it's what I've got. The Sonic cards determine what lind of a computer I have to use.
I looked at a couple other DAWs and decided that after all the work that it took to learn and set-up this system, I'll stick with it. |
|
|
|
Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
|
Posted 1 Apr 2002 6:34 pm
|
|
Mike,
Does that mean I can bump my old 16 bit 2408 up to 24 with that gizmo ?
I'm thinking with the new version of Pro Tools around the corner and all the other stuff that can run because of the new Macs there are going to be some cheap, amazing gear on the used market real soon.
Bob
|
|
|
|
Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
|
Posted 1 Apr 2002 11:00 pm
|
|
| Your 2408 will still be 16 bit but the 324 PCI card that the 2408 plugs into will accept 24 bit audio.The 24i expander has no card - it just firewires into any one of the three sockets on your 324 card and bada-bing,you got 24 analog inputs/24bit A/D converters feeding into your computer.Plus your 2408 still works as usual(16 bit)BTW,the 24i will also work at 16 or 20 bit as well at either 44.1 or 48khz(sorry no 96khz)But that uses up too much hard drive space anyhow. -MJ- |
|
|
|
Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
|
Posted 2 Apr 2002 9:08 am
|
|
FYI, the 2408 analog inputs are 20 bit capable, as well as the ADAT inputs. Unfortunately, you have to record in 24-bit to get the extra 4 bits in the computer, which eats up computer disk space and speed. The Tascam I/O is the only 16-restricted part of the interface. The 24i does give you 24-bit balanced +4dB inputs, where the original 2408 only has RCA connectors for the ins.
If you don't already have one of the older systems using the PCI324 card, my recommendation is the Firewire interfaces because you get a lot more for the buck. |
|
|
|
seldomfed
From:
Colorado
|
Posted 3 Apr 2002 5:23 pm
|
|
Two basic paths grasshopper;
computer DAW = ultimate flexibility + best MIDI rig , and no cost ceiling.
hardware DAW = simple to use and portable, with bounded costs.
For starting out, I propose one of the hardware based systems will be a better start for anyone. The only thing you need to do is plug, and play and learn the basics.
Upgrade to a computer/software DAW later as your needs and skill grow. You can even master to a great box - Alesis Masterlink. Then let the pros master your creation to a final CD.
Pro Tools is a widely used tool, almost 'standard', but not every pro studio uses it. There are lots of good systems out there that compete.
Check out the new Roland VS2480 - it's amazing. 80gig drive, drag and drop editing, 24bit, moving faders, cd burning, effects, monitor and keyboard input etc.
I think unless you are extremely familiar with computers, audio interfaces, software capabilities, upgrades, software installation, etc. you'll be more involved in messing about with the details than making music. Plus with a computer based DAW you'll eventually want a mixer solution because mixing with a mouse is cumbersome.
It all comes down to making good music first, then recording it. A studio truth I learned long ago is - 'you can't polish a turd'. Although I guess they do sell N-Sync and Brittany Spears records alot don't they 
------------------
Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"We can't afford to let Nature Run Wild" - govt. offical - Alaska
|
|
|
|
Joe E
From:
Houston Texas
|
Posted 3 Apr 2002 6:19 pm
|
|
Bruce...
For what its worth...I think you can use the ADAT inputs simultaneously with the 8 regualr inputs on the DIGI 001. So if you still have the adats or get a AI you can get 16 inputs at once.
The Fire Wire stuff is really the way to go for computer recording these days, and you won't have a ton of money into it, when something better comes out.
Stand alone DAW's are great like the Yamaha AW4416. If 16 tracks are not enough try the new Roland 2480 with 24 tracks. These two units are the best on the market for all in one boxes.
I really only use a few tracks for drums. One for Kick, one for snare, stereo toms and stereo overheads. Well I guess thats 6. Then I track Bass and maybe guitar with ocasional scratch vocals along with drums. Every thing else is done later.
If your decent at micing drum kits you can use 4 track. Kick, snare, and stereo overheads. And the old stand by is three, kick and stereo overheads. I have used this plenty of time with nice results. Alot of the drums get smooshed together anyway with compression. |
|
|
|
chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
|
Posted 3 Apr 2002 8:52 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| Plus with a computer based DAW you'll eventually want a mixer solution because mixing with a mouse is cumbersome. |
There are a number of expensive and inexpensive midi control interfaces. I've used Peavey MIDI faders, on the lo end, and now I use the Cooper CS10 which is still lo-mid ($700 approx).
The important issues, as I see it, are the quality of the I/O boxes, and after you've got it in there, how much facility do you need for editing. I was on a recording recently where we tracked to 2" tape and when it was dumped over to Pro Tools, it went through some cheap (I think it was Alesis) converters, and the converters took the life out of the tracks. They've since gone to another facility with Pro Tools and dumped everything through something else. Apogee, I think.
Every "link in the chain" especially conversion in and out of the digital domain, contributes to the overall quality. |
|
|
|
John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
|
Posted 4 Apr 2002 4:34 am
|
|
| I've been using a Roland VS1680 for almost 2 years for demo-type projects in my little project studio. I bought it instead of the computer because of the stability and portability of the system. Since then, I've augmented it with a PC for mastering and doing rhythm tracks before entering the 1680. The only downside of the 1680 are the converters that can be replaced by a good preamp or mixer with good preamps. Living in Canada, the costs are huge against the American dollar, so I can't even think about getting a 2480 ($5+K). So I'll stick to the 1680 as I hardly ever need any more than 16 tracks anyway using MIDI drum trax. Guys like Mike and Chas are in a different league, bigger ears, clients. |
|
|
|
Chris Schlotzhauer
From:
Colleyville, Tx. USA
|
Posted 4 Apr 2002 7:49 am
|
|
| You can buy the older 2480 for 2500.00 on line, no tax! I don't recommend the new 2480CD because the 80 gig hard drive, although is big, is not removable, whereas the older 2480HD drive is. Also the built in CD burner is overpriced IMO. I did buy the Roland CD Rack unit. It is about 450.00 which is pricey, but I recommend you stick with the Roland CD burners because of problems with third party burners.I bought mine last month and I love it. I just received the version 2.004 upgrade which has really cool features. So my older 2480 is really more powerful and flexible than the newer 2480CD. |
|
|
|
Michael Johnstone
From:
Sylmar,Ca. USA
|
Posted 4 Apr 2002 10:15 am
|
|
| The funny thing about using fader boxes with Pro Tools,DigiPerformer,etc is everybody has them(me too)but almost nobody uses them.I guess when people first go to a DAW system,they try to hang on to whatever they can that is analagous to the equipment they've used all their life as a security blanket.That's why software GUIs are designed to look like the actual faceplate of the hardware they're trying to emulate - like Bomb Factory and UA compressor plugs etc.But back to the fader boxes - once you input a fader move,chances are you're gonna go back and fine tune it in the graphic editor mode.Once you are comfortable in that mode it's much easier,more accurate(and faster)to just skip a step and go there in the first place.A lot of the heavywieght Pro Tools operators around L.A.like Leann Ungar and Michael Monarch from Steppenwolf are telling me the same thing - their fader boxes are gathering dust.Also,there are alternatives to a mouse - I use a Kensington trackball w/4 programable buttons and a scroll wheel.One guy I know uses one of those graphic pads w/stylus and he really flies on that thing.Mike Monarch uses a Shuttle Pro in his left hand and a mouse in his right hand and he really gets around as well. -MJ- |
|
|
|
