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Topic: Buddy Emmon's amp |
Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2001 8:09 pm |
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| Does anyone know the type of ampflier Buddy Emmons used when he recorded "Buddy Emmons/Steel guitar (1975)? I really like that type of sound. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2001 8:15 pm
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If that's the one with Danny Boy, he used a Fender Twin.
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1985 Emmons push-pull, Session 500, Nashville400, 65 re-issue Fender Twin, Fender Tele
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Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 14 Sep 2001 9:29 pm
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This album was a collection of steel guitar favorites such as "Steel Guitar Rag", "Sugarfoot Rag", "Remington Steel", and was (I believe) Buddy's first rendition of "Orange Blossom Special". It does, however sound like it could be a Fender Twin.
Thanks for the suggestion, Craig |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 15 Sep 2001 7:09 am
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Danny,
If you like that sound (and MANY of us do  ) I would suggest you look to the GUITAR rather than the amp.
An Emmons push-pull was used on that recording -- as a matter of fact a 12-string push-pull -- as you see on the cover. It was definitely a hot rod guitar, with pickups at both ends of the neck and a really wild string effect (the gizmos extending over the strings from the changer end. BUT, the sound I hear is what I too call 'that sound': the sound of an old Emmons guitar, usually with a single coil pickup, usually through a Fender tube amp like a Twin. Shortly after that time, Buddy switched to Peaveys -- often a Vegas 400 -- the many times I saw him in the 70s and 80s. The change in amps made little difference in what I heard. Later on, when Buddy was experimenting with the LeGrande, Sierra, EMCI, and other brands, I did notice some difference in tone. The playing was definitely Emmons, but the tone of the different guitars did vary.
To me, a Sho-Bud through a Twin sounds like a Bud; a push-pull through a Twin sounds like a push-pull. Same is true for other PSG brands. They have their unique tone, but more of that tone is in the guitar than the amp. That's why the old Emmons guitars are still highly collectable.
Jus' my li'l ole opinion.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro
[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 15 September 2001 at 10:06 AM.] |
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Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 15 Sep 2001 9:05 am
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| Larry, Thanks for the input. I have listened to (many times) Buddy's "One For The Road" album, and I can tell a distinct difference in sound from that album and the 1975 album. I'm not sure of the year that "One For The Road" was made (I can only guess several years later), but I sure do prefer the more "gritty" sound of the Fender played through the Emmons than what appears to be a PeaVey. I play a 1975 ZeeBee (I inherited from my father when he died in 1977) and am in the process of choosing another amp. After I decide on one I'll see if this guitar is one I want to stay with. Danny |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 15 Sep 2001 9:13 am
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Danny,
The ZB guitars are on my personal 'short list' of the best sounding brands. If I were you I would try both Fender and Peavey amps -- be sure to push them a bit -- find a place where you can turn them up and give them a good workout. Even better, if you can also have someone else play your guitar through them, you can listen more effectively. Tone is such a personal thing, only YOU can be the judge. Be aware, however, that one reason many of us began using Peavey equipment is that the Session/Nashville/Vegas series amps were designed specifically for steel, the speakers are more robust than JBLs, and there's more power, providing headroom for louder gigs.
I, too, have been admiring, observing, and listening to Buddy Emmons for MANY years and I don't believe he ever does anything for no reason. Wise man, brilliant musician, DEEP thinker.
LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 15 September 2001 at 10:20 AM.] |
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Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 16 Sep 2001 6:57 am
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Larry, I appreciate your thoughtful advice on choosing an amp. I recently started playing again after a long haitus (to be honest, I've never really played professionally), however I do enjoy practicing, learning and trying to emulate the "Emmons" sound. His crisp, clean runs, with a minimal use of pedal movement in going from one note to the next really shows the time and effort he put in, and his obvious talents on the instrument.
I do also enjoy some of the older sounds on the steel guitar. My father played an 8 string Fender (tuned to an E6) back in the early 50's, and I still enjoy that original electrified steel sound. I think too much of a departure from the original sound of the steel guitar is not a good thing for the tradition of country music.
Thanks again for your help, Danny |
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Bill Stafford
From:
Gulfport,Ms. USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2001 4:03 am
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IT IS NOT THE AMP FOLKS!!
And it is not the guitar either!!!
Bill Stafford |
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Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2001 6:59 am
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Bill, Too bad you entered a decent conversation between Larry and I with a dig about how good someone is on the steel guitar. The one thing greater than your playing is the size of your ego. Check your psychic masochism, cause you got a lot of it, bud. By the way, I have a Ph.D in psychology, and one of the reasons I never played steel guitar professionally was because of my father's obvious egotism (which he later admitted and regretted) and because he steered me in a different direction than playing in bands and what typically went with that kind of lifestyle, womanizing, drugs, alcohol, etc.
One more thing. I own a an upscale pool room in Southern California and also play in some professional pool tournaments, and am very conscious of amateur pool players desire to improve (at any age) and how important it is to be encouranging and supportive when they ask questions about particular strategies and equipment. Too bad you can't be a bit more kind. Danny |
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Danny Bates
From:
Fresno, CA. USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2001 7:22 am
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Quote
"because he steered me in a different direction than playing in bands and what typically went with that kind of lifestyle, womanizing, drugs, alcohol, etc"
I have a "life experience degree" in music performance and I can tell you that this pre-judging attitude you have toward musicians is wrong. If you want to find some real womanizing, drug taking and alcholics you better look towards your Doctors, Lawyers and other "professionals". Including our ex-president. Personally, I don't think you know any professinal musicians. Can you tell that I hate these kind of blanket statements made towards musicians? Do you think I've had enough of people saying them?
Don't tell me .... I've got an ego problem... and because you have a degree you can diagnose it? |
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Larry Bell
From:
Englewood, Florida
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Posted 17 Sep 2001 8:58 am
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HOLD IT . . . HOLD IT . . . HOLD IT!!!!
Danny K,
You read Mr. Bill's message all wrong. There is no kinder, more sensitive person in the steel guitar community than Bill Stafford. Although we have only met a few times, I can assure you that what you think you heard is not what he intended.
I BELIEVE that what he intended to convey was the (very TRUE) opinion that much more of the sound/tone of a steel guitar is in the hands than in the guitar OR the amp. We have tossed this idea around for years on the forum. Bill is RIGHT. Sorry you misconstrued his meaning, but I'm convinced you DID.
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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2000 Fessenden S-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Emmons D-10 9x9, 1971 Dobro
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Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2001 12:03 pm
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Bill, Danny & Larry, Sorry if I took these comments the wrong way. It appeared that Bill was making a comment about my own personal ability. I know there are many fine, upstanding musicians out there also.
Bill, is Larry correct in his interpretation of what you wrote?
If so, I apologize. Danny |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2001 3:07 pm
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Danny,
You can't beat the sound of a ZB through a Fender amp. Unfortunately, many of the tube amps out there are pretty trashed, so make sure the amp is up to spec. A good way to go is to get a late 60s/early 70's 'silverface' twin that isn't in great shape, and have a good tech go through it and 'blackface' the circuit. Also, replacing one of the stock Fender 12" speakers with a JBL or Peavey Black Widow 12" can sound great.
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 17 Sep 2001 3:08 pm
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Danny, Bill hasn't checked in yet.But I feel sure he would not put down anyones playing, even if it was really bad.However it is ironic that I was just reading a post about his new power amp.
When it comes to Buddy most agree it don't matter what he's pluged in to,it's gonna sound good.BTW I to think he might have used a twin for this album. My Best-------bb |
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Bill Stafford
From:
Gulfport,Ms. USA
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Posted 17 Sep 2001 7:11 pm
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I am very sorry my comment was taken in the wrong light. That was not my intention at all and I send my deepest apologizes to anyone that may have been disturbed.
Here is a short story of what I had in mind and I think a lot of players know this:
I was at the Joliet Hawaiian show in Illinois a few years back. My amps, two Evans FET 500 with my two extension cabinets were set up on stage. Jerry Byrd, the Master of Touch and Tone, was going on stage. He asked to use my amps. After I plugged him into the amp, he made no changes to the tone settings what-so-ever. (And, he was using a borrowed lap steel that he had never played before). His touch was evident while he touched up the tuning on the steel guitar. When he played, his tone was instantly recognized and his touch and technique was just like all his signature" playing.
Please forgive me again if my comment about this has hurt anyones feeling.
And I have to tell you about your "ego" comment--should I ever have one, my Dad and Mom would come down and immediately kick my tail proper. Thanks for this opportunity.
And if any of you are ever in my area, please give me a call and come over for a visit.
Thanks again,
Bill Stafford
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Grayson Joe
From:
Raleigh,Ms.39153
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Posted 18 Sep 2001 6:25 am
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Folks i agree with Bill Stafford, and fully understand what he is talking about, i,v known Bill for many years and he is a very nice person and a great steel guitar player too. i wish that i had the money i,v spent on amp after amp.,p/u after p/u..effect units after effects units trying to get that sound like Buddy Emmons, John Hughey and many others and i still sounded like Joe Grayson, and finely realized that its all in the HANDS!!!
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Joe Grayson,Monticello ms |
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Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2001 2:01 pm
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| Bill, Sorry I took this the wrong way. You seem to be a nice person. Thanks for your input on the "hands" part. Appreciate the info from everyone. Danny |
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Mike Sweeney
From:
Nashville,TN,USA
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Posted 18 Sep 2001 11:56 pm
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| Well gentlemen I'll tell you what I was told about the [Rainbow] album. I was told that Buddy cut that album with that 12 string push-pull and an Evans Hybrid 300 amp. I also heard he hated the amp and threw it out in the trash but it survived and somewhere it has a happy home now. Ask Buddy if I'm right. I may not be but that sounds a whole lot like that tonal color that those old Evans amps produced. Mike Sweeney [This message was edited by Mike Sweeney on 19 September 2001 at 12:57 AM.] |
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Danny Kuykendall
From:
Fullerton, CA, USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2001 6:38 am
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Mike, interesting comment about Emmon's amp. Would he have used the Fender Twin in Someday Soon? The sound is similar (I believe) to the Rainbow Album.
Thanks, Danny |
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Ernie Renn
From:
Brainerd, Minnesota USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2001 10:55 am
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Here's what Buddy had to say:
"I used two Peavey amps on the "Rainbow" album. Any difference from the tone I normally used was due to the ability to mix the sound of two pickups at the changer end of the guitar, one in the normal position and the other an inch or so to the left of it. The two pickups were wired to a balance control that allowed me to have a 50/50 blend of both pickups, or a plus/minus percentage of up to 100% of either pickup. Some songs or parts of songs were recorded at the 100% setting of the second pickup and resulted in an out of phase or Fender related sound".
He also added: "As for the Judy Collins album, I believe I used a Standel Custom amp and my rosewood Emmons push-pull".
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My best,
Ernie
The Official Buddy Emmons Website
www.buddyemmons.com
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 19 Sep 2001 11:52 am
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So we were all wrong.  Not my favorite BE album anyway.  But I still like it.  ---bb |
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Gene Jones
From:
Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)
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Posted 19 Sep 2001 1:56 pm
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| * [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 06 May 2002 at 10:40 AM.] |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 19 Sep 2001 2:07 pm
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| The original Emmons amps (Emmons Guitar Co) were apparently built by Standel. I had a schematic for it and a couple of Standel schematics and the layout on the schematic etc looked like they were drawn the same. |
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Danny Hullihen
From:
Harrison, Michigan
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Posted 19 Sep 2001 6:20 pm
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| I have to agree with Bill Stafford on this one... "It's in the hands." |
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Pete Burak
From:
Portland, OR USA
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Posted 19 Sep 2001 6:29 pm
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If it weren't for Bill Stafford, I'd still be searching for a good S12U copedant.
Thanks Bill!
And with respect to Buddy, it's worth repeating...
"IT IS NOT THE AMP FOLKS!!
And it is not the guitar either!!!"
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