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Topic: Nashville 400 Mods |
Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 8 Mar 2001 2:14 pm |
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One of the biggest difference between the Peavey factory and John Lemay mod is C41. Peavey does not change the value on that capacitor while the Lemay mod changes it to a 22uf cap.
Blake Hawkins has a Nashville 400 with the Peavey mod plus C41 changed to 22uf (he did the change himself but later learned that is also what the Lemay mod does). I had a chance, yesterday, to compare his amp to my Nashville 400 with the Peavey factory mod. There was a big difference in the lows but there was also a big difference in the mids and highs. My amp had a lot more mid and highs.
I did a mod on the reverb molex connector - the molex connector is gone and I now have RCA phone jacks for the Reverb I/O connectors, which should eliminate a constant source of problems.
Since I had the amp chassis out of the cabinet to change over the reverb connector I decided to change C41 to 22uf in my amp just to see if there was a difference. To my surprise my amp still had most of the mids and high's it had before but the C41 changed the bass - added bass but also made the bass "boomy". I removed the 22uf at C41 and left my amp with just the Peavey factory mod changes as I like that better. I will say that Blake is happy with the tone on his but he uses his for rhythm guitar or for lap steel and wants the bassier sound.
Blake's Nashville 400 is a 90 model, mine is a 96 model. There is a major difference in the tone of the two amps. As we talk about modded or non-modded amps or which modification, apparently when the amp was built has a significant affect on the sound. If I had not compared the two amps side by side, using my D-10 Franklin, I would not have believed there was that much difference. |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 8 Mar 2001 7:41 pm
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| What Jack said about late model and early model N-400's.And the mod thing.I've always known the Lemay Mod gave more low end.Though many have insisted they were the same.I like the Lemay mod better,but different strokes for different folks.To me the early N-400's had a nasty mid range honk.And either mod is a great help for them.Just my 2 cents worth! Thanks Jack for clearing this up. |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 8 Mar 2001 9:54 pm
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| Jack, I don't know if I should even post this or not, but here goes. You can take a brand new factory Ford ,or Chevy, and increase the horse power. You can increase the performance from 200 horse power to over one thousand. The next question is this, how long will the hopped up motor last when you compair it to the factory motor? We are not talking about blown motors, but blown speakers. Peavey has been building amps for over 35 years. Does 35 years experience mean anything? They must guarantee what they build. Do you expect Peavey to guarantee a amp that has been modified? Do you think Ford or Chevy would guarantee a car that had been hopped up where it had 1,500 horse power. I hear about the Low ends being incresed with these modifications. What happens when a guy gets on the 10th string of the C6h neck, and has all the volumes on 10? I think that is the problem Hartley Peavey is facing. He wants to be nice to everyone and guarantee his products. Hartley Peavey can make stock amps sound better, just like Ford and Chevy can make their products run faster. Before I would do a lot of modification, I would find out what Peavey would or would not guarantee. Do you think Ford or Chevy would allow you to put different parts in the motor and still guarantee it? Jack, what is wrong with telling what you think? If I am wrong, I am wrong. Maybe Mike Brown can say more about this subject. |
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Chas Holman
From:
10 miles outa Lone Star, TX - USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2001 10:26 pm
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Keith - with all due respect, I think what Jack was saying is he prefers the Peavey mod over the LeMay.
I'm asuming that Peavey would 'guarantee' their own "factory modification" . . . or am I missing something here.
BTW - I'm looking forward to trying out one of your pedals. I keep hearing GREAT things about your products.
-Chas |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 9 Mar 2001 12:28 am
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| I would be very disappointed if I found that a company "weakens" their amps just to avoid speaker warranty problems! |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 9 Mar 2001 4:35 am
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Keith my reason for posting was to compare the two mods and my take on the sound between the two.
Why Peavey did not change C41 is for them to address. Maybe that will increase the low end too much or at least enough that they cannot conservatively feel comfortable with that much low in any potential situation. I didn't do any technical measurements to determine how much boost it actually did.
However, my rack setup which is a Peavey Transtube Fex, MosValve 500 power amp and two Peavey Nashville 112E clone speakers has more lows than the Nashville 400 but the lows are clean - not "boomy". Which is another comparison of the Nashville 400 with the C41 value changed. |
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John Lacey
From:
Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada
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Posted 9 Mar 2001 6:37 am
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| "What happens when a guy gets on the 10th string of the C6h neck, and has all the volumes on 10?" I've done this with my Nashville 400 (unmodified) and I could hear the compressor kick in. Isn't that what the DDT is built for? |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 9 Mar 2001 7:18 am
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John, I can see Keith's point. In order to "cover your a$$" in any situation you have to engineer conservately. There is a potential for very high instantaneous power level peaks - at any frequency - that the DDT compressor/limiter may not be able to react fast enough for (which again is probably design intentional). A manufacturer, with a warranty, has to design their equipment so it will work reliably for a long period of time and be within their design criteria specifications under any potential situation. In order to guarantee that the device will function and not cause amplifier or speaker damage things such as frequency response may be intentionally limited at certain frequencies.
There are many changes or "mods" that can be done to commercial amplifiers, whether it is Peavey, Fender, Evans, Marshall or whoever. Many will not have an appreciable affect on the integrity of the amplifier, but there are many mods that do and although the mod "increases low end" or "increases power" they also exceed the safety parameters of the manufacturers design criteria and the amplifier's integrity. |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 9 Mar 2001 8:22 am
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| Jack, you are just great! You said in your last post what I really wanted to say. Thanks! You are a very smart man. Like everyone else, I kept hearing about mods. Hartley Peavey and I are good friends and write to each other. I asked Hartley Peavey about all the mods taking place. In a nutshell here is what Hartley told me; He said the mods expanded the low end frequency response. Then he said, "I got to guarantee these amps!" That opened my eyes and I could see what Hartley is facing. These amps are not just sold to steel players. These amps go to ROCK and ROLL players and every other type of player and instrument. The question then is this: With a particular mod, can you take the biggest string on a C6th steel guitar neck, lower it, and play it at maximum volume without speaker problems? If you are getting away with doing this, how long will you get away with it? I suppose it is a trade off. Are you willing to get more performance,knowing you are increasing the risk of speaker problems? Like cancer problems may show up with age. How much risk are you willing to take on to get improved sound-frequency response? It may be like some of the pills I hear them advertizing on T.V. The pills are wonderful, but the side effects are terrible. My only question is why someone hasn't ask these important questions about these mods? [This message was edited by Keith Hilton on 09 March 2001 at 08:25 AM.] |
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Blake Hawkins
From:
Florida
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Posted 9 Mar 2001 3:51 pm
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I guess I ought to say something since I started this thing with Jack.
My elderly NV400 had always had disappointing bass response. Perhaps I should have bought a Fender Twin and got rid of the NV400.
However, being curious and having the technical facilities, I wanted to learn about the amp and understand it's design criteria.
So I purchased and installed the Peavey factory mod. It made an immediate improvement in performance.
I am used to high quality broadcast and sound reinforcement equipment and upon examination of the circuit, I could see that the low end response was intentionally limited in the design. The factory mod changes all of the coupling caps except one:
C-41. So at least some of the extra bass you are getting in the pre amp stages is lost at that point. I changed C-41 in my amp and liked the result. I could get cleaner bass at a lower setting of the bass control.
Later, in discussion with other steel players
I found that the Le May mod also makes this change.
Why the linited bass response? I expect anything with a 15" speaker to do pretty good in that area.
Mike Brown says this amp and the 1501 speaker is "voiced for steel." To me that means that it is for a pedal steel player who uses a lot of E9 and does not need much bass. The 1501 speaker is probably limited in the bass range so that it can deliver a lot of power in the mid range..remember this is a 210 watt amplifier in a fairly small package.
It is clear that Peavey didn't intend this amp to have a lot of bass...so I and others who put in the mod are in effect making it do something that was not intended by the original designer...I don't ask Peavey to guarante that and I am not concerned with violating a warranty because my amp is long past the warranty period.
As Jack mentioned, I do use my amp for lap steel and rhythm guitar.
When I play "Bootheel Drag" I want that gliss on the 8th string to be up front and have some "bite." The extra mod gives me that.
There is still the question of why we have so much difference in the mid range. My first guess is that while I have an original 1501 with 11 years of wear on it...Jack has
a brand new one.
When I get the time, I plan to go through my
amp and be sure that all the remaining components in the signal path are within the original specifications.
The original design of the NV400 was in 1983.
Think how different pedal steel technique is
now, 18 years later. IMHO there is a lot more use of the C6th neck and perhaps that's why the mods have become popular.
I really don't plan to redesign this thing. (smile)
Blake
[This message was edited by Blake Hawkins on 09 March 2001 at 03:57 PM.] [This message was edited by Blake Hawkins on 09 March 2001 at 06:12 PM.] |
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