House Mix EQ Question

Jon Smorada · From: Industry, PA USA

I remember reading an article on the Net a while back that dealt with how to EQ a live room. What the author basically said was that often there would be complaints that the music was too loud when in fact, it was just a certain frequency range that needed to be cut to clean up the mix and make it "appear" less loud. Can anyone point me to this article or give any advice on how to deal with this? Since I'm recovering from carpal tunnel surgery and our sound man has decided to start playing with another band instead of mixing, I'm now the temporary sound man for the band. I printed Terry Downs' article on frequencies and it was very helpful, but doesn't address this particular issue. Thanks!

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Jon
'66 Emmons P/P D-10 4x8
rebelspirit.net/rebel
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Craig Allen · From: BEREA, KENTUCKY, USA

The freq. you are looking for is 2500K.

I don't know why, i suppose it's an audio illussion, but 2500K is the one you want.

Always "ring out" the system/room. I know how to do it, but I'm not good at explaining it. I'll leave that for someone else to do.

Bon Chance

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

After all these years of high volume onstage, I can't hear a thing above 1 megahertz.

Terry Downs · From: Wylie, TX US

Earnest, my ears are so good I can even hear negative frequencies!!!

Jon, I glad you found my article informative. The standard audio text defines the "presence" range as 2500 to 5000Hz. The ear is very sensitive to this range. The apparent loudness of sound can be greatly affected by these frequencies. The problem with reducing them results in the loss of clarity.

One of the biggest problems I've seen of this topic is crossover settings and speaker placement. Speakers and horns are usually very directional at their high frequency upper limit. Many years ago I found that I could raise the crossover frequency from 2kHz to 4kHz and remove the harshness from the sound. What I didn't realize until later was ... I was forcing more 2kHz to 4kHz range to appear in the midrange driver instead of the horn. The midrange speaker is highly directional at those frequencies, whereas the horn has much wider dispersion at that region. I was mixing in the center of the room and putting all that harshness to the people directly in front of the speakers while myself and the center audience was enjoying the warm LACK of 3kHz. It is important that multi-way active crossover systems be set such that the midrange speaker is not outputting such high frequencies that it only produces them on axis. I suggest playing a CD through your system and walking around the entire listening audience area. Listen for harsh spots.

It obviously didn't sound harsh to the sound engineer, but it did sound harsh in a certian part of the audience. If the mixer was setup where the compliants were coming from, the problem would have taken care of itself. Survey the room at sound check and adjust your crossover points. The one good thing is that once you get them set to cover a wide area, you don't have to ever set it again until you replace the speaker components with ones that have different polar patterns.

I am also convinced that some people are more sensitive at that band and there is nothing you can do besides turning your PA off.

While I am here I will announce my pet peeve about sound.

Dave Boothroyd · From: Staffordshire Moorlands

The other hazard to watch out for is the DJ's ears syndrome.
After a fairly short time exposed to this frequency band at high levels, your ears and brain will start to EQ them out. A really stupid person will then turn up the high frequency bands so the sound is the same as it was at the start of the evening. Meanwhile the audience, especially the ones who arrived late, are either leaving or sitting with their hands over their ears.
Studio engineers can have the same problem when a mix which sounded great after a long late session makes your ears bleed the next morning.
The solution is to monitor at relatively low levels in the studio- that can be a bit harder live though if the sound engineer has to wear earplugs it could be that the band might be a little too loud.

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Cheers!

Bill Terry · From: Bastrop, TX

Dave,
I think what you're talking about is called TTS, Temporary Threshold Shift, and is a self protection mechanism that the ear uses when exposed to extremely high SPL.

Unfortunately, after this occurs enough times it becomes PTS, Permanent Threshold Shift. At one time Peavey taught this stuff in their Sound Reinforcement Seminars for their dealers.

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bterry.home.netcom.com

Jon Smorada · From: Industry, PA USA

Thanks for all the responses folks! The problem really is with the room; other bands have the same problem. It has a tile floor, painted drop ceiling and painted paneling...all reflective surfaces. Plus, the stage is small and recessed into the wall.

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Jon
'66 Emmons P/P D-10 4x8
rebelspirit.net/rebel
rebelspirit.net/showdown

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

Some rooms have poor acoustics and nothing you do will make it better.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

You don't have to play LOUD to sound good. After 40 years of playing music, I have lost some of my hearing, but still my number one complaint with most bands is "You're too damn loud!"

If the band's 25 feet away, and you can't carry on a conversation with someone 3 feet from you, then they're too loud. Line dancers (Hillbilly Disco'ers) have only exacerbated this problem. For some reason, they need about 115 DB to keep in step.

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