Jerry Byrd's Diatonic Tuning

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I suggest making yourself a chart that shows the names of all of the natural notes (no sharps or flats) on the first 12 frets. Use it as a reference as you play melodies with harmonies from sheet music. Start out with easy songs in the key of C.

The diatonic tuning is made for melodies. It's pretty easy to read music on it, once you learn the intervals.

------------------

Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Jeffstro,

JB's diatonic tuning is as you probably know:

1. E
2. C
3. B
4. A
5. G
6. F
7. E

This may help. For a moment assume strings 3 and 6 do not exist. What you have is a C6th tuning. And that is exactly what JB uses, when he plays this tuning and needs the "6th" sound.

Now look at strings 3, 5 and 6. You have a G Dominant 7th chord (V7) in the Key of C at the same fret.

Now look at strings 2, 4 and 6. you have the F sub-dominant chord (IV)in the Key of C at the same fret.

Now look at strings 1, 3 and 5 or 3, 5 and 7. You have an E minor cord (III min).

With the exception of the II minor chord, you have all 7 chords in a given Key at any fret. IE, I, IIIm, IV, V, VIm and V7 (psuedo dim).

Note: you have that IIm chord down 2 frets from the I chord. (strings 1, 3 and 5 or 3, 5 and 7).

By proper "gapping" it allows you to use this in a most affective way. And while strumming is most of the time NOT done, JB ocassionally does strum for a very nice affect.

Sit down with this tuning and pick out these chords in a given key staying at the same fret, (save the IIm). And become very familiar with them. In time you will see the beauty of a Diatonic tuning.

Of course NO human on earth could ever do it like Jerry. But shoot, he don play no mo anyway, so what the heck

If you have access to JB's album "HI FI Guitar", use this tuning and learn his rendition of "Come a Little Closer".

If you do, this tuning will open up many of its incredible secrets.

God bless you with your efforts,

carl

[This message was edited by C Dixon on 29 April 2001 at 01:59 PM.]

Paul Graupp · From: Macon Ga USA

Carl: No wonder I couldn't work out Come A Little Closer back when I was trying ! I was
using B11th and while it had a lot of pretty stuff in it, I just couldn't duplicate what
Jerry was getting. Regards, Paul

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

Carl, very nice post.

If anyone were to extend this to 8 strings, I wonder what the rationales might be.

Personally I can see several approaches, but I would tend to push the above 1 - 7 down to 2 - 8, and add a D string as the 1st string, giving:



D


E


C


B


A


G


F


E

(where the D 1st string is between the C and E strings in pitch)

This would allow an inversion of C dim on fret 1 using strings 1, 4 & 7.

Also the full IImi7 chord in the key of C (Dmi7) at fret 10 using strings 1, 4, 6 & 8.

It also would allow the full V7 chord at fret 1, an inversion of G7, using strings 1, 4, 6 & 7.

A good issue Bobby Lee has raised is the difficulty of tempering the 2nd, or D note to sound sweet enough to make these chords work; so extending this tuning to 8 strings in this way may not be the best way to go.

Still there are so many chords laying around in addition to the ones above that it may be worth the trouble - e.g., minor 6th, min7b5, min7th+5, min9th (though not a particularly good inversion), Maj7b5 & Maj9th.

Regardless of how it may be extended, there's sure a lot there if you don't need much range, and it makes slants easier too

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Bobby Black extends it by adding a low C#.

Guest · Posted 3 May 2001 1:40 pm

You can find the diatonic tuning on the chord finder at http://www.mightyfinemusic.com/ChordFinder.asp. This might help you find notes and intervals for various chords.

[This message was edited by Stephen O'Brien on 03 May 2001 at 02:41 PM.]

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

That page is wrong. That's not JB's C Diatonic tuning.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Yes,

I would add a D on top if I were to use 8 strings and here is why.

The D probably belongs between the E and the C, however there is a commmon 3 string slant that would be ruined if you did that. It is a 9th chord picking strings 1 and 2 and slanting the G note down to an F#. JB uses this all the time.

But the D on top would finish the Diatonic and add the IIminor at the Key fret.

carl

Guest · Posted 3 May 2001 5:13 pm

Bobby, thanks for your correction there. But now I'm the one who's confused. After reading your note I checked around and found several diatonic tunings attributed to Jerry. They are:

Yours: E, C, B, A, G, F, E
Scotty: E, C, A, G, F, E, D
Brad Bechtel: C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

I don't remember where I got the one I had (C, B, A, G, F, E, D, C) but I'm sure it was also identified as a JB tuning.

I have updated the Chord Finder now so that it has all four variations, but I'd like to ask for your help given your expertise and knowledge. What is the "real" diatonic tuning for Jerry Byrd? Is there more than one? I'll make the corrections based on your advice.

Thanks

[This message was edited by Stephen O'Brien on 03 May 2001 at 06:15 PM.]

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

Stephen, yours is the same as Brad's, but with the string order reversed.

On a side note, while I was at Dekley, we built a D-10 for Red Rhodes. One neck was a either Eb or Bb diatonic with a high Bb. He told us (and was correct) that it would have to have a 23" scale to be able to handle that high a note. He had pedals and knee levers on that neck too, but I don't recall what they did.

------------------
Jim Smith jimsmith94@home.com
-=Dekley D-12 10&12=-
-=Fessenden Ext. E9/U-12 (soon to be U-13) 8&5 (so far)=-

Guest · Posted 4 May 2001 1:28 am

Oops. Oh, yeah. That's the famous BACKWARDS DIATONIC tuning!

I thank you for noticing and I'll make the correction in the Chord Finder. I'll keep all three of the other variations for the sake of completeness.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

The one published in the liner notes of Steel Guitar Romantic World is:

E


C


B


A


G


F


E

I've always assumed it was correct, since JB was involved in the preparation of that album on Tom Bradshaw's Steel Guitar Record Club label.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Carl, I disagree with you about adding a high D. What would you tune it to, the G or the A? That's the rub. By omitting the D, you can have pure JI intervals all around.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Actually b0bby, I am in agreement with you. I have never had an 8 string Diatonic. I used JB's 7 string Diatonic as you and I listed.

I was just saying, IF, I had an 8 string I would put the D on top.

You are 100% correct. If one tuned JI, No way to tune it with the A and the G. I would have to split the difference. And at best it would be a compromise.

That may be the reason JB only puts 7 strings on his D-8 on the Diatonic neck.

Thanks for bringing it up,

carl

John Kavanagh · From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada * R.I.P.

I use a D diatonic on the back neck of my D8. It's usually either a D dorian d e f g a b c, or mixolydian d e f# g a b c. The tuning seems trickier, but I sometimes do use a d major with the c#, same as the 8-string C tuning Brad gives but up a tone.

I like the key of D, and wanted to be able to play fiddle tunes in D, A, or G with some open strings, but the main reason for D is that I can retune to E13 (bdef#g#bc#e) without restringing.

I tried it without the second scale degree, but I missed it for those harp-like scale runs up and down that are an obvious but very pretty trick in this tuning.

I tune the D major chord, the fifth down from d-g, and then the e minor chord by ear, since I usually slide up for a V chord but stay on the I fret for a IIm. But I do temper it a bit, I guess; I'll adjust the e if the a-e fourth is really bad. The minor chords are a little more forgiving, one reason I avoid the major tuning.

------------------
John Kavanagh
D-8, acoustic 8
mostly G6 and E13

[This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 06 May 2001 at 10:52 AM.]

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