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Topic: The $65,000 Telecaster |
Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 26 Aug 2006 10:30 am |
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This is insane. A 1952, 1st year Telecaster, one owner, excellent condition.
Click This[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 26 August 2006 at 01:24 PM.] |
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chas smith R.I.P.
From:
Encino, CA, USA
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Posted 26 Aug 2006 3:00 pm
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Last Feb, I was up in Berkely at a warehouse, where we were hanging out with a collector. Room, filled with Fender stuff as well as other, old, cool things. While everyone was talking, I sat down on a tweed amp and picked a 52 Tele, that was leaning up against the wall and started noodling around on it. Nice, actually really nice guitar, so I asked how much they were going to get for it. $60,000.
He had just purchased a blackguard Tele for $45k and said how the previous ownder didn't know what he had.... |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 26 Aug 2006 3:03 pm
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| The old Fender stuff is going crazy. I'm hanging on to my '68 tele! |
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John De Maille
From:
On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.
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Posted 26 Aug 2006 8:12 pm
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| I have a 66' with an ash body, maple neck, and a P.-W. B-string bender. I guess I'll hang on to it for a few more years. Maybe I'll leave it to my son in my will! |
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Danny Williams
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2006 8:47 pm
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I have a 1954 Strat In Great original condition. The SS# is 1025. I had to replace the frets but that was in the late 60's and Leo still had the company. I have the original case and it shows it's age.
I used it with Tommy Collins when he was preaching in Colfax Ca. We did a few stage shows back in those days.
Any one have a guess on what it might be worth in todays dollars. I took up the payments of $158.58 in 1965. It was purchased at a music store in Marysville, Ca. 8 Months earlier. Phillip Baugh baught his Tele at the same store.
I also have an amp the I bought from the same store that Phil used as a trade in. Phil said he couldn't get enough volume out of it.
I sure miss Phil.
Danny Williams |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 31 Aug 2006 10:52 pm
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A 1st year - 1954 - Strat in great condition? Are you joking?
The 2006 VGM price guide lists it at $40,000. But this guitar is rising in value so rapidly the 2006 price guide is outdated.
I wouldn't sell that guitar for less than 60K. Actually ...I wouldn't sell that guitar! Mid-1950s Strats sell for 20 to 30K, but a 1st year Stat is the cream of the crop... top of the heap. Congratulations! Now get it insured, and get an alarm system for your house  You should hang on to that guitar as long as possible. Every year it increases in value. Any changed parts, non-original parts, refinishing, or damage would severely diminish the value. A professional refret is generally not a problem.
There is a nice '54 Strat on eBay now, and it's listed at $150,000... of course that's a crazy dealer. What he's saying basically is... I'm not parting with this guitar.
[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 01 September 2006 at 12:02 AM.] |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2006 4:50 am
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| These things are going up 20% a year for certain pieces.. Hang on to your old 50's USA made guitars.. you WILL be able to retire on them..there is NO letup in sight on these insane prices.. They are escalating at a dizzying pace which will continue.. In 10 years, that $65,000 tele will sell for $300,000. about 6 years ago it was an $8,000 guitar... bob [This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 01 September 2006 at 05:52 AM.] |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2006 6:20 am
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I'm really leery of saying "In ten years..." and extending the short-term trend in instrument prices, art, vintage cars etc. We live in a paper-based economy with no real ties between the numbers in the computers and tangible goods, and we are currently collectable-crazy. There are plenty of people with garages full of Beanie Babies....
Because the economy is based on hot air, wishful thinking and a sort of gentleman's agreement among nations not to crash it, it is very fragile. If the big quake hits California the same week the big hurricane hits New York City, if OPEC really starts to sell oil based in Euros rather than dollars, if people really start to understand what the disappearing water tables out West (and the price of oil) mean for the permanent price of grain, we may find ourselves "re-valuing" the basics again: land, water, food, oil. A garage full of guitars won't mean much when you turn on the tap and no water comes out, or you turn on the switch and the lights stay off.
P.S.(Have a GREAT day!  ) |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 1 Sep 2006 7:44 am
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I agree with the other David M. on this. Most things tend to be cyclic. I agree that this stuff is being manipulated because nobody wants to be the dirty sob that let it crash - guaranteed to be out of power for a long time. They made that mistake in the late 20s, gonna try not to repeat that again.
But pure probability will work to bring together a confluence of events that sends things reeling. It's been happening since the dawn of time, and will continue. We act like we can really control things - it's a myth. Mother nature can't be controlled -we can't even stop a simple rainstorm from happening. BTW, my Ph.D. is in control systems, because I was so fascinated with the dynamics of large-scale systems and the idea that one could control them. Like I said, it's a myth. There are always fundamental constraints to the ability to control things.
Of course, it won't be the end of the world, which will be none the worse if collectors can't get megabucks for their planks of wood with strings on 'em. |
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Bob Smith
From:
Allentown, New Jersey, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2006 8:05 am
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All i can say is hang on to those "Cabbage Patch Doll s" theyre going through the roof one day.  |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 1 Sep 2006 4:02 pm
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I'll tell ya.. it will take an event of horrific Biblical proportion to stop the mad vintage market.. It started about 30 years ago and shows NO sign of a slowdown..
Back in 1979 I bought a 66 Firebird for $700 and was wondering what was wrong with my brain for paying that kind of money for an old guitar.. The market has gone nowehere but UP every year since then and is spiraling up ever faster.. Yes I agree, the Tribulation/Apocolypse WILL stop the spiral, but that is the ONLY thing that will... I have been hearing about the bottom dropping out of this mad market for years and years.. It ain't gonna happen UNTIL mass wordwide famine and pestilence are the norm....and thats only if the super rich can't get food and fuel either.. If they CAN all bets are off... Old guitars will STILL be worth more than their weight in gold... bob |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 1 Sep 2006 6:15 pm
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| A major economic crash? Well, All market prices would probably go down in that event, but like GOLD, vintage guitars will always have great value, even if they fluctuate somewhat in value from time to time IMHO. [This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 01 September 2006 at 07:53 PM.] |
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Bob Martin
From:
Madison Tn
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Posted 1 Sep 2006 11:13 pm
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Heck, I seen a 76 fathead U neck strat sell at Gruens here in town last month for 4500.00 bucks and I liked to swallowed my tounge and I have a 76 at home in better condition than his. When I asked him why he wanted it so much to pay that price he said it was for his collection and that he was trying to get strats and tele's from every year from the 1st year on up and he was up to just needing a 76 and a 72 as far as strats go.
So I'm guessing that the real value of a 76 strat is no where close to that but who knows.
Bob |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 1 Sep 2006 11:39 pm
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Amazing!!!
I remember what a joke those '70s Fenders were when they were first made - some of the worst guitars ever!
That was the reason for the enormous success of the then-new Squier line in the very early '80s. Their Strats and Teles were infinitely better than the US-made ones.
$4500???!!! Yikes..... I never thought I'd live long enough to see such a thing - it wasn't so long ago that you could hardly give those away!
RR[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 02 September 2006 at 12:39 AM.] |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 12:02 am
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Fender Teles and Strats were throw-away guitars back in the '60s. People would paint them, cut them up, swap the necks, etc... I know, I butchered a couple of them! Back in those days players were more interested in Mosrites and Hagstroms! Gibsons were always highly regarded too.
I think the Telecaster (Broadcaster) was the first guitar with a removable neck... making it easier to tear apart |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 12:25 am
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IMO, $4500 for a '76 Strat is just silly, even in today's market. But things are just so completely overheated - with many people just making crazy rash decisions - that I think there will be an adjustment. I don't think it will take a huge calamity - just a significant downturn in the external world. I'm not saying I think these guitars will suddenly be valueless - of course, nice old Fenders, Gibsons, and so on will have a high value unless there's a real economic disaster. But things have gotten so out of hand on the high end that values are on the order of houses and real estate.
Let me also say that I think speculative fever is driving a lot of this, and a small chink in the armor could cause people who just came into this market to lose confidence. If one of these new "investor" type collectors - that has never even played a guitar - just spent all this money thinking that the prices are going to go up, up, and away - then something happens that even temporarily slows or reverses it - look out. This is like any market for anything. I think one of the reasons that the market for vintage has been good for the last 20 years is that the it was very much a cogniscenti and player's market, and growth has been steady but prices were still fairly well in line with those for comparable new guitars. Now we're talking about a lot of new, inexperienced "investors" and, in some cases, values that are 50 to 100 times the value of a comparable new guitar.
Just my opinion. I could be wrong, but I look at balancing the upside benefits vs. downside risk. Up until the last year or two, I didn't see this up market changing, but now I see more downside risks. |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 6:46 am
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In the Strat-collecting world, there is a huge difference between a '72-74 staggered-magnet pickup Strat and a '76 or later Strat. Of course, I think $4500 is too much for the early 70s versions, but that is the general reality right now. I think a lot of this is fueled by frustration with not being able to find earlier models at an affordable price and the fear that, in time, a "vintage" Strat will be impossible to afford. Myself, I much prefer an 80s American-made reissue Strat, as a guitar and as an investment. Over the years, I've had many of those those that are pretty comparable to pre-CBS instruments. They've been moving up lately, but still can often be found at reasonable prices.
I also agree that even if there's a market correction, the really desirable old vintage guitars are still going to command relatively high prices, as compared to a new guitar. |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 6:50 am
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Good post, Dave.
I think uninformed 'investors' are being caught up in the spiral. Once upon a time, so-called vintage guitars commanded a higher price because they were better instruments that the new ones. I don't think that's always the case now.
Martin had their 'bad' period with some unfortunate guitars in the '70s, Gibson went through a phase of changing things for change's sake, and, with Fender, it was shortly after the CBS take-over.
All these companies are making great guitars again. They all woke up to the 'vintage explosion' and addressed their quality-control issues.
The '$4500' quoted for a '70s Strat seems to indicate that the age alone is determining its value - eg: a '63 is worth X-amount, so this '70s one is worth a bit less. There's no comparison between the two guitars (unless that '70s Strat is a one-off miracle!) and they each come from two periods of widely-differing production techniques and quality-control. I'd go as far as to say that the only similarity (apart from the general shape!) is the name on the headstock.
The sliding scale of age = value shouldn't apply here.
I'm very thankful that there are such excellent Gibsons and Fenders available today, 'cause I can't afford vintage prices.
(I do wish they'd reissue the cherry-red ES-355, though.....  )
RR |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 9:00 am
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| age alone is determining its value |
True, unfortunately. Back in the 1970s players wanted pre-CBS Fenders (pre-1965) because they knew that those guitars were superior to the Fenders produced in the CBS era (1965-85). Today we don't hear the designation pre-CBS much. All that matters now is a guitar's age... old is good. Most players agree that Today's American Fenders are better than the Fenders of the 1970s. Yet the '70s ones continue to go up in value. Buyers/collectors can't afford the '60s ones, so that drives up the price of the '70s guitars.[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 02 September 2006 at 10:02 AM.] |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 9:29 am
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Doug...
That's exactly the point I was trying to make - you did it in one paragraph, though!
I was in a big guitar store in Nashville about six years ago (that big Supermarket-type place on Gallatin) when an sales-guy urged me to try a Custom Shop '63 'Relic' Telecaster. He knew my playing, and he knew I'd enjoy the guitar, so I went ahead.
It was fantastic! I've played hundreds of Teles of all vintages over the years, but this one was perfect - weight, warmth, a great tone even withOUT being plugged in, and that wonderful neck-profile.
I hesitated.... Partly it was the colour (a kind of faded dirty red) and partly because I wasn't even contemplating another guitar (this one was $2100), but I hesitated...
I went back four hours later, realising that I'd connected with an instrument that would fulfill me through the rest of my life, but it had gone.
I just hope the guy was a decent player.....
RR |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 11:23 am
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By statistical definition, 50% of the people in the world have an IQ under 100.*
*P.S. (This is a very versatile all-purpose factoid, applicable in a wide range of situations.) |
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Alvin Blaine
From:
Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 3:00 pm
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I just checked out that auction and realized that I know the guy who sold that guitar.
Mark of Cowtown Guitars here in Vegas. That's where I buy and sell my vintage gear.
Next time I go to dealin' with him I'm going to have to remind him of all that money he just made off that '52. |
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Leslie Ehrlich
From:
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
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Posted 2 Sep 2006 3:10 pm
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| Late 1970s Fender Strats are pure garbage. Anyone who has one and thinks it's a vintage guit that's worth a lot of money is crazy. |
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