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Topic: That Ain't "Spoonful" He's Playing, But-- |
Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 9 May 2006 9:26 am |
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That ain't lap steel he's playing, either.  Moved to Music from No Peddlers.
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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 9 May 2006 9:38 am
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That's South Africa's Hannes Coetzee, there's some background stuff in this thread over at the International Guitar Seminars forum.
Very cool video!
Steinar
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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights
[This message was edited by Steinar Gregertsen on 09 May 2006 at 10:38 AM.] |
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Herman Visser
From:
Rohnert Park, California, USA
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Posted 9 May 2006 4:42 pm
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That is great stuff, would have to call that chin mouth,chest slide guitar.
sure would like to hear more on this player. |
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Herman Visser
From:
Rohnert Park, California, USA
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Posted 9 May 2006 6:46 pm
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| Ben thanks for the post...... Steinar also thanks for the addtional info.Got to check this out soom more |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 9 May 2006 8:26 pm
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I was going to stifle a reply, but watch out, here it comes.
First of all, the semi-gracious part: Herman, Steinar--glad you enjoyed this, too. It was sent to me with the kind of buildup that raises my skeptic's hackles. It lived up to all the buzz and much more.
Now the vitriolic, outraged and affronted rant. I am royally pistov (pardon my Russian) about The No Peddler Czar exiling this thread to the topical boondocks [better: gulag] of Music--the cerebrally arid home of Big & Rich rants, am-I-an-old-fart-or-do-these-kids-play-too-loud-onstage-nowadays and CMT program alerts.
To me, Hannes Coetzee (again, thanks, Steinar) is a modern-day echo of Joseph Kekuku, Gabriel Davion (or your steel guitar inventor of choice) and the primitive yet inventive spirit that led to...
LAP STEEL GUITAR, Brad.
(And even to pedal steel guitar...) Too bad very few Forumites will share our excitement in this comparative intellectual backwater.[This message was edited by Ben Elder on 09 May 2006 at 09:27 PM.] [This message was edited by Ben Elder on 10 May 2006 at 12:01 AM.] [This message was edited by Ben Elder on 10 May 2006 at 12:25 AM.] |
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Keith Cordell
From:
San Diego
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Posted 9 May 2006 9:33 pm
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| I have to get behind Ben on this- should be in the no peddlers section, he is using a metal slide- albeit in an unorthodox fashion- much the same way lap steelers would use it. The technique bears looking into as well, and is something that would be of interest to those of use who LIKE interesting new approaches. |
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basilh
From:
United Kingdom
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Peter
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Posted 10 May 2006 3:43 am
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I agree with Ben. That is why I posted this amazing clip on this forum in the first place. But not everyone understood this.
The treatment of this footage by this forum was disgusting; the reactions of other forums however were amazing. That is why I posted more background information to the other forum members and not to this forum.
I wish Hannes had recorded more songs, but I only have footage of the same song played in a theatre. I might post it on the other forum later.
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Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 10 May 2006 5:10 am
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This is very interesting playing, but is more in line with a musical oddity/novelty thing more so than a serious non pedal approach to the lap steel guitar as is the No peddlers section.
I see nothing wrong with it being moved to the music section.
Those who thought moving it here was "disgusting" and were "pistov" about it moved here are over reacting.
Brad has done a fine job moderating the No Peddlers section and does not remotely deserve to be flamed in this manner. There are better ways to voice an opinion about this. |
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Peter
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Posted 10 May 2006 6:27 am
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Joseph Kekuku's contribution was "interesting playing, but is more in line with a musical oddity/novelty thing"?
OK.
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 10 May 2006 6:31 am
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Peter. You let me know just how many players you see using a spoon in their mouths to play with and then make a percentage comparison as to what is a novelty/oddity and what a viable technique. OK?
So far, I have seen ONE. This fellow. |
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Peter
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Posted 10 May 2006 6:59 am
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Bill, I am sure someone said exactly the same about 120 years ago about Mr.Kekuku.
I also do not think it is THAT important. It is certainly not worth an argument. Discussions are OK of course.
I just thought this clip would be fun and the happy vibe of the music certainly came across to a lot of people.
Unfortunately, not on this forum.
Hence my reaction.
Please let's not fight about music?
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Peter den Hartogh
1978 Emmons S10 P/P; 1977 Sho-Bud D10 ProIII Custom;
1975 Fender Artist S10; Remington U12; 1947 Gibson BR4;
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Steinar Gregertsen
From:
Arendal, Norway, R.I.P.
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Posted 10 May 2006 7:33 am
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A while back I came across a clip of a blues guy, playing a squareneck resonator, doing absolutely everything "wrong" (being a lefty, he played with the treble strings closest to his body, used a glass bottleneck instead of a 'proper' steelbar, and flatpicked). Yet, his performance grabbed me in a way very few 'contemporary' blues players manage to do these days.
My point? I consider clips like these to be important because they prove that after all is said and done, and all the noise about high tech gadgets and "proper this or that" has settled, what really matters is the heart and soul we manage to put into our playing.
A very simple truth that is easily forgotten...
Steinar
PS - the clip with the blues player, Watermelon Slim, can be viewed here, for those interested.
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"Play to express, not to impress"
www.gregertsen.com
Southern Moon Northern Lights
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 10 May 2006 8:43 am
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Ben, I'm sorry you feel that your post was exiled to SGF Siberia/aka the Music forum. In my opinon, the post and link does not belong in No Peddlers as it has nothing to do with non pedal lap steel guitar. If someone were to post a link to a video of slide guitarist Ry Cooder playing a regular guitar with a different slide than Mr. Coetzee is using, it would still not be appropriate for the No Peddlers section.
He's playing a slide guitar. Admittedly it's a very interesting variation on the slide guitar, but it's still a regular guitar played with a slide, not in his lap.
Feel free to provide additional feedback on this decision in the Feedback forum where it more properly belongs. |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 10 May 2006 8:52 am
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| Since I don't have one, somebody post a pic of an armless player steeling a guitar on the floor ("...not playing lap steel either...") with their feet to "No Peddlers" and see how many nanoseconds it takes to be exiled to Music. |
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Ben Elder
From:
La Crescenta, California, USA
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Posted 10 May 2006 8:57 am
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Brad--
I have only seen one decision as dead wrong as not letting non-pedal players have easy, logical access to this video. Fortunately, I'll concede, the Exile of Mr. Coetzee isn't costing the American taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars a year.
Forum Feedback?!? Talk about Siberia! |
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David Doggett
From:
Bawl'mer, MD (formerly of MS, Nawluns, Gnashville, Knocksville, Lost Angeles, Bahsten. and Philly)
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Posted 10 May 2006 9:10 am
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I think Hannes performance with a mouth-held slide is stunning - also Watermelon Slim's (a modern day white Oklahoman, who flat picks left-handed on a right-handed square-neck reso with a small bottle). I suppose their technique could be called "a novelty," although "unique" might be a more appropriate term. Their music is serious, very delightful, and highly listenable.
Peter, I'm sorry you felt slighted by the original response back in April. But your post then was an off-topic post buried in a post on another subject that had few participants. This current thread has a cryptic title, and may also not get much attention. I think if bottleneck blues on round-neck guitars belongs in the No Pedals section, then Hannes clip belongs there as well. However, it is no slight of any kind to put it in the Music section. Like many others on the Forum, I don't go to the individual sections, and don't pay much attention to what section a post is in. I just skim the thread titles in the "current daily" format. As it is, there is certainly nothing "disgusting" about the response - it simply hasn't been noticed by many people yet. If you present it with an informational title and with the background material, I'm sure it will get a big response. Hannes is very accomplished with his unique and original technique. I especially like the way at one point he holds the slide on a high note for a whole verse, with the chords changing underneath. This is a common device in South African music that he adapts very nicely with his unique mouth-slide technique.
I think this is another examplt that, while the public associates steel guitar stereotypically with certain genres, such as Hawaiian or country, those stereotypes derive entirely from the players, not the instrument itself. When someone from another tradition, like Hannes, chooses to play steel guitar, what comes out is completely different, and completely styled according to their own tradition. The Delta blues sliders, and Indian slide players are other examples of this.
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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards
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