Sidemen - Artists or Gophers?

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

I went to a concert of a well-known icon last summer.
I enjoyed the show thoroughly, but was quite disturbed by the way the sidemen were treated.
Before the show and during the intermission, the musicians were running
up and down the isles of a fairly large arena, hawking the Icons’ CDs.
Are they paid that poorly?
What’s next, do they have to collect empty pop cans in the parking lot
to get their salary up to a living wage?
After spending most of their life perfecting their skill
on their chosen instruments,
the musicians were treated like bus-boys
for the greater glory and profit of the star.
I never see that behavior from Canadian performers.
The band and the harmony singers were world class and made the icon sound like a million bucks and were artists in their own right.
I felt they deserved more respect than that.

Bryan Bradfield · From: Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada.

Andy -
Your comments are interesting. I've seen that scenario only once. About 5 years ago, Kitty Wells came through Lethbridge with Johnny Wright and their son. The activity that night was:
1) Band does a 20 minute set, then walks through audience selling one product.
2) The young Wright does a 20 minute set, then the band walks through audience selling a different product.
3) Kitty does a 20 minute set, then the band ... different product ...
4) Johnny Wright & son do a 20 minute set of Johnny & Jack hits.

Prior to each selling expedition, it was explained that Kitty & Johnny, etc would be available in the lobby to sign the photos, cook books, vidoes and CD's that were purchased during the show, and it was true.

I felt that this selling activity was the way it was done "in the old days". One thing for sure was that it speeded up the after-the-show signing process.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I don't know about today, but it used to be that was a "perk" in a road band if you got the "concessions".

Selling "product" is part of many shows. I've worked many shows with Tommy Cash and it's not uncommon to sell $400 or $500 worth of "product" even in a small (250 people) audience. And a pat on the back to Tommy for pushing the band members CD's too (he allows us to put our "product" on the same table as his).

Maybe on the really big name stars it's different, but on a lot of the shows band members have other jobs. In the early 70's, I was the amp tech at Little Roy Wiggin's "Music City" music store in Nashville. Terry Bethel was working for Mel Tillis back then and when they would come in off the road he always brought a small suitcase with broken mic and guitar cables to be repaired and then would pick them up before they went back on the road. I assume taking care of the equpment was his "additional" job in the band.

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

The way it looked like to me, it was as if the band was treated like uneducated minimum wage workers from a temporary agency.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

It might be a fun gig and the guys in the band might be happy to help out. Its tough these days to keep a good show on the road.
I usually head down to the merch table after road gigs and say hey to people and help sell stuff if needed.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

Steve Hinson · From: Hendersonville Tn USA

...it never was my cup of tea...but I've known some VERY famous steel guitar players who sold product in the audience and made 15-20 grand a year extra...

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http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

I've heard of bands doing that sort of thing years ago.... but hey, work is work.

Smiley Roberts · From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075

Andy,
I don't know how old you are but,when I started traveling the road,"full-time",back in the 60's,we always "hawked" the artist's products. This was extra income for us.

When I first went to work w/ Tommy Overstreet,back in '71,he asked the band,who wanted to take care of the sale of albums,tee shirts,etc. Nobody else wanted to,so I volunteered. When the guys saw how much extra money I was making,they ALL wanted in on the action. Like a fool,I let 'em,which cut into my commissions. This practice has been goin' on for YEARS!! Conway Twitty,Roy Clark,Mel Tillis,etc,etc. The list goes on & on. There's nothing "degrading" about. It comes w/ the territory. Most of the time,this takes care of your expenses on the road. If you sold $1000 worth of product,you could make $100 to $200 extra,per show,depending on the "deal" that you've worked out w/ the artist. Consider it a "bonus" of sorts. Don't forget,the band member makes "$X00" amount of dollars. The artist makes "$XX,000" amount of dollars. He/she can afford it. I've done it before,& I'd do it again.

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  ~ ~


  ©¿©  It don't mean a thang,   


  mm   if it ain't got that twang.


       www.ntsga.com

[This message was edited by Smiley Roberts on 11 April 2006 at 08:01 PM.]

Jody Sanders · From: Magnolia,Texas, R.I.P.

That is the way it was done in the"old days".Never made a lot of extra money, but every little bit helped. Jody.

Michael Garnett · From: Seattle, WA

In today's commercial music industry (for everybody but the very top grossing acts), I'd say the tour would be doing good to break even on gate sales. Merch is where your profit comes from. Imagine how much it costs to lease or own and maintain transportation, fuel costs, hotels, plus pay musicians a fair wage. Now imagine you don't have some huge record deal that's alleviating some of those costs. Guys are doing it all over the place here in Texas. Merch is where it's at.

Just my $0.02 though.

-MG

Also, I'd disagree with the "artists" designation. There is a very distinct difference between "art" and "craft." Art is something that is creative, dynamic, and constantly changing. Craft is something you can sit down and do over and over again, like play the same changes to the same same songs in the same set list for 100 dates a year, packing up, and doing the same thing in the next town over. A side man is a skilled laborer, and is paid as such.

[This message was edited by Michael Garnett on 11 April 2006 at 08:44 PM.]

Mickey McGee · From: Phoenix,Az

In the old days when I was working out of Hollywood, ca we sold all kinds of stuff on the road BUT it was always the road crew that did this job NOT the players BTW Hi Skip.Mickey.

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

Don't forget,the band member makes "$X00" amount of dollars. The artist makes "$XX,000" amount of dollars. He/she can afford it.
--------------------------------------------

Is it wrong for me to believe that skilled craftsmen should be paid a living wage? If these stars had to hire four or five people off the street to back them up, how would they sound then?
Oh well, as Ronnie Hawkins used to say, "You have to save your money up for those good gigs".

[This message was edited by Andy Greatrix on 11 April 2006 at 11:10 PM.]

Richard Bass · From: Sabang Beach, Philippines

Selling product was a good thing when I was working with Faron. We usually worked around 150 days per year, 100$ to 200$ extra per day made a big difference in the bottom line.
Richard

Dayna Wills · From: Sacramento, CA (deceased)

Something I noticed when I was in Texas a few years ago: My cousin Rosetta was selling her book and I was selling my cds. We were at an outdoor venue, so we wrangled a table from the fire dept. boys and set up on a sidewalk leading up to the park where the music was. Rosetta ran out of books, so we went back to her house, got more books, and when we got, not only had one of the other artist's agents taken our table, he also took my 4 lawn chairs, and moved the table down in front of the bandstand. I had a fit. I knew it was gonna hurt our sales because people do not like to come up and do business when the band is playing. Plus, it was dark now and we had been under a street light. Well, the agent let us use his lights, but he bogarted the table and really put a cramp in our style. For myself, I like it when there's an intermission and you can peruse the stuff, and even better if the artist is there to sign it. I saw George Jones here in Stockton a few years ago and during intermission several guys came out and sold his cds in the theater. Not the lobby, the theater. Didn't even have to leave my seat! I would think it demeaning too, if I thought the musicians were doing it as part of their job description, and not of their own choosing. (When I was on the road nobody had any product to sell. There weren't even cassettes.....ooohhhh that WAS a long time ago.)

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Jim Hartley · From: SC/TN

I know it was a long time ago, and things may have changed, but selling product was a great way to make extra money. In fact, the last two years I was on the road, I owned the concession and paid the artist a % for use of his name. I bought the albums, opry books, bumper stickers and anything else we sold on the road and paid the band members who wanted to sell. If they didn't want to, that was their choice. I know the guys who sold seemed to eat alot better, plus they didn't need to borrow "road money" either.

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

In summery, I think musicians should be treated with respect as a human being, if not as a musician and should be paid a decent living wage so they don't have to sling product to eat. If money is their main goal, they may as well stay home and sell Amway. That way, they get to sleep in their own bed at night.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

I personally don't know a road picker that's making 75K. Most are only getting Union Scale and then only when they are on the road. Many considered selling product as a "perk".

Ernest Tubb always had outstanding pickers and they only got scale.

When I was in "Nashvulle" many that I knew had part time jobs when they were off the road, or their wives worked and really supported the family. Odell Martin was picking lead for Faron at the time and he had a part time job at the Grammer Guitar factory and then later also got into Amway (and always was after me to get into Amway too).

John Lacey · From: Black Diamond, Alberta, Canada

I think that I could live pretty well on $75K.

Michael Garnett · From: Seattle, WA

Depending on cost of living and where you live, family, etc.

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

Being a freelance musician is not for the faint of heart !
One way to look at it is what you receive from living the musicians life is something that no amount of money can buy.

If any of you guys come see a road gig I'm playing feel free to drop by the merch table after the gig to hang out and say hello. Its often the only chance I get to meet people.

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

James Cann · From: Phoenix, AZ

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

To be a full-time professional musician is a calling. You either have it or you don't. And those that have it can rarely explain to those that don't what it is that makes it your life's work.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Skip Edwards · From: LA,CA

That about sums it up, Herb.
And hi, Mickey.

Andy Greatrix · From: Edmonton Alberta

I've been a musician and singer all my life. That's all I ever wanted to do and that's all I know. However, I don't think I or any other musician should have to wear brown lipstick, to paraphrase Frank Zappa.

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