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Topic: Great talents that never "made" it.. |
Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 4:30 am |
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Going through Extended Family, each day I see sad stories about the passing of great friends of my steel playing buddies.
So many of those folks were/are LOADED with talent but never able to really make the big time.. Yeah they could eat and almost pay the bills, but always in the shadow of the "" Big Names""...
I too have played with SUPER talented friends that never made it really.. a few were pretty well known in thier own backyard, but never seemed to realy "catch fire" elsewhere.. many of these old friends could blow away half of todays "stars".
Guys and girls with soul,innovation,fantastic vocal ability, but just never made it over the hump for whatever reason.
. I dunno, I just think this would be a good discussion topic.
Between looking at the passing of talented friends that never made it "big", and listening to some of the crap music of those that HAVE made it big, I have come to the conclusion that maybe there IS no justice in the music biz.  any thoughts?..bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 06 July 2005 at 05:36 AM.] |
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Mark Metdker
From:
North Central Texas, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 4:38 am
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Yep, I know what you mean. I'm playing with a guy right now who has one of the best voices I have ever heard.
www.jonchristopherdavis.com
And, he may make it yet. But we have already figured out that it ain't the steak, it's the "sizzle" that sells the most records. We are still trying to figure out how to "sizzle" better!
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Zum U-12 w/True Tone pickup thru a Nashville 112
Strats thru a VHT Super 30
Band Pics
http://community.webshots.com/album/176544894AuXSmi
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 5:37 am
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I used to work for a Jukebox company, in Harrisburg, Pa. I did the "programming" (record purchasing) and would get sent records from all over the country. Some had a lot of potential, good voices and good recording sessions but the problem was if the same song would have been cut by a known singer, e.g. Sinatra, Tony Bennett or same way with a country song it would sell a million. I did get lucky with a couple of "covers" (basically all jukeboxes except a select few) before any other jukebox company in the Harrisburg area programmed them with the Supreme's "Baby Love" and Roger Miller's "Dang Me" but these turned out to be "superstars", not an unknown that never made it.
The person has to have the voice, but also the stage presence, etc to really make it. True, today, it mostly takes looks and the $$$ to promote you but I'm referring to "real" talent. |
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Fred Nolen
From:
Mohawk, Tennessee, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 5:37 am
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I couldn't agree more.
Mark, would you mind if I use your "it aint the steak, but the sizzle that sells"? I am an adjunct teacher at the local community college and can think of a many uses for this. As I teach developmental courses, my students will remember things such as this long after the lecture has ended.If you don't mind, I will cite you as my source - you know, plagiarism and all.
Thanks, and pardon my getting off the subject.
Ol' Fred |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 5:55 am
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I've always thought Terri Gibbs should have gone much farther in the business than she did. Now it seems she has retired from the music business:
quote:
Biography
b. 15 June 1954, Augusta, Georgia, USA. Gibbs was born blind and has been playing the piano since she was three. She listened to a wide repertoire of music and, even though she is regarded as a country singer, there are many other influences, notably Ray Charles. Gibbs sang gospel in her early teens and formed her own band, Sound Dimension. Meeting Chet Atkins, she was encouraged to become a professional performer. In 1975, she started a long residency at the Augusta Steak And Ale Restaurant, playing 50 songs a night. Her appearance had impressed an MCA executive, while her demo tapes had been noticed by producer/songwriter Ed Penney. Her debut single for MCA, the country soul of "Somebody's Knockin", reached number 13 on the US pop charts. Subsequently, she only had country hits, which included "Rich Man", "Mis'ry River", "Somedays It Rains All Day Long" and "Anybody Else's Heart But Mine", but, despite her talent, she did not emerge as a major country star. In 1984, she recorded a duet, "Slow Burning Fire", with George Jones. She turned to gospel music in 1986, signing with the Word label, and enjoyed three Top Five singles on the Christian charts in 1988. She has since retired from the music business.
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Mark Metdker
From:
North Central Texas, USA
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 7:56 am
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Bob, they say that heroes are made, not born. That is, they're just ordinary people who were put in a position where their particular contribution was made evident, sort of "being in the right place at the right time". I think those that are classified as "stars" are the same thing. They're ordinary people who were placed in the public eye by some circumstance, and then got recognized by the masses for their "contributions". Call it luck, fate, timing, or whatever. We, and history, make people stars and heroes. They're not really special, they're just doing what they do.
Many with really little talent achieved much notoriety, and many with great talents remain unknown, and will never be recognized.
That's life. So it goes. |
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Fred Shannon
From:
Rocking "S" Ranch, Comancheria, Texas, R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 8:12 am
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The topic suggests, too, that perhaps everyone in the music business really wanted to "make it big". There's the distinct possibility, and in my case--fact, that several of us, who have been in the 'business' for a long period of time, didn't or don't, want to make the big time, and wouldn't take it if offered.
Some of us are perfectly content to just entertain and relish the satisfaction of performing in good harmony with fellow musicians, and be satisfied that 'amateurs', if that's the proper word, will never have to worry and fuss over the problems that 'professionals' encounter.
And, too, the fact remains there are several players who fall into the amateur status, as stipulated by the pros, that can kick the pants off of some that make their living playing.
McCall does a number that exemplifies the feelings of some of us; "leave me alone".
Good topic.
Phred
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"From Truth, Justice is Born"--Quanah Parker-1904
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 8:33 am
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It is a good topic, Bob.
A few years ago a couple of colleges collaborated on a two-year study to see to what degree talent and luck played a part in a given artist "making the big time" -- they found that it was about 50-50, which is to say half the time talent goes unnoticed and half the time sheer luck is all it takes regardless of the talent involved.
I have several friends that did "make it" and while they are all vbery talented, every one of them has a story of how their career took off due to pure circumstance, some of them way too bizarre to believe.
When I was younger I dreamed of being the bass player for The Eagles. Since that time, I have had the opportunity to work with somebody who actually was and if that is how I'd have turned out I'm glad it never happened.
I'm with Fred, it's not necessarily a lifestyle for people who value good physical and mental health, not to mention maintaing quality relationships, raising children, etc. - Roy Buchanon, for instance, had many opportunities to become "big time" but had a much better idea.
I'll choose quality of life over fame and fleeting fortune anytime - besides, only the songwriters ever make any real money and most of them get to stay home a lot. |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 8:56 am
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Jim Cohen.
I was doing some song demos for a publisher a few years ago and one of the tapes sent to me to do a track on was a Terri Gibbs demo-just her singing and playing acoustic piano to a cheap cassete machine. Very nice song and she sounded great in spite of the poor quality recording. Maybe she is just into song writing these days. She is indeed a fine talent. |
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John Daugherty
From:
Rolla, Missouri, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 9:55 am
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| There is some "LUCK" involved in getting recognized. You need to be in the right place at the right time. You can increase your chances of being in the right place if you are willing to travel. I think most of us paid our dues to our family and gave up a lot of travel opportunities. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 10:09 am
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While I do agree that some VERY talented people really don't care if they ever "hit it big", I was thinking more along the lines of really talented people that worked hard, paid thier dues, WANTED it bad, worked for it, dreamed about it, but could never really make it happen.
Buchannan was a freak as far as playing ability went.. unreal. I just wonder if he ever really "wanted it"... I'm sure he had the opportunities.
I just think the number of great singers/writers/players that "fall through the cracks" is appalling.
I think of some of the great singers I've been friends with, and played two bit dives with for $40-50... then I think about a few of the ""artists"" on top 40 radio,, and I just shake my head and wonder if life is fair.. Forgive me,, I KNOW I'm over analyzing AS USUAL, but that damn Extended Family section gets me every time...
I'm just too much of a softie .
I read all too many posts about big talents that died without thier due recognition..bob |
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George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 10:30 am
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Hey Bob Carlucci...great post my friend. I played many years ago with a guy by the name of John Hart. He had it all together. And also was a finalist on that old TV show on TNN, "You Can Be A Star". He was an entertainer, song writer, singer, just an all around mix of talent. He had the protential, to perform on any stage with the best of them. I sat on my back deck one night with him. He wrote a song called "We'd do it all over again"....this was about 6 years BEFORE Alan Jackson ever recorded anything close to it. I have it on cassette to this day. just flat top and talent. He kept kicking on doors, banging his head against the wall. Did demos..you name it. He gave up..he's a meat cutter today, and hasn't played in at least 10 years or so. I was told by a very reliable source, that while in Nashville for a period of time, he sold the aforementioned song, one night while drinking in a downtown Nashville bar to.."Some dude in a suite for 50 bucks"....
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Whitney Single 12 8FL & 5 KN,keyless, dual changers Extended C6th, Webb Amp, Line6 PodXT, Goodrich Curly Chalker Volume Pedal, Match Bro, BJS Bar..I was keyless....when keyless wasn't cool....
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Alan Shank
From:
Woodland, CA, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 11:04 am
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She's not a steel player, but this thread is not necessarily just about steel players. My nomination for a great talent who hasn't made it is singer Dawn Sears. For me, she is one of the absolutely best country singers I have ever heard. She has a couple of albums out, years old, and mostly does backup singing for Vince Gill, Patty Loveless and others. I imagine she's making a living, but if I were the "general public," she would be a star. She is one of the very few singers that can make me listen to a song I don't like, just because of her voice and the way she sings.
Cheers,
Alan Shank |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 12:37 pm
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Those in the Northern Ca. area for more than ten years will know this fellow. He is Sacramento steel guitarist, Jimmy Fox. I haven't seen Jimmy for years and years, but when I was starting to get gigs in the early '70's he was absolutley tops... he did ocassionally record for various folks from Sacramento to Bakersfield, but mostly just played 5-6 nights a week... truely a master at E9th or C6th... tone to rival any other player, and was even kind enough to take some time to show me a thing or two.
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Dave Wren
'95Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Session500; Hilton Pedal
www.ameechapman.com
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Dean Dobbins
From:
Rome, Ilinois, U.S.A. * R.I.P.
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 2:21 pm
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Another fantastic talent is Dani Leigh.
If you've ever heard her rendition of "Touch Me", you'd have to agree she could give Willie Nelson lessons in phrasing!
Ofcourse, all us steelers know who should be at the top-LANEY HICKS!
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Dino |
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George Redmon
From:
Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 2:35 pm
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Dean..i agree..Laney Hicks is #uno..such a great talent and wonderful person...i just love everything she does....can we nominate her into the steel guitar hall of fame even though she doesn't play? she sure has contributed to it with her great voice. And her support for Steel Guitar!!!! My Vote!
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Whitney Single 12 8FL & 5 KN,keyless, dual changers Extended C6th, Webb Amp, Line6 PodXT, Goodrich Curly Chalker Volume Pedal, Match Bro, BJS Bar..I was keyless....when keyless wasn't cool....
[This message was edited by George Redmon on 06 July 2005 at 03:36 PM.] [This message was edited by George Redmon on 06 July 2005 at 03:39 PM.] |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 3:33 pm
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| Since it's not about "Steel Players", I'm moving this to the "Music" section. |
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Ken Lang
From:
Simi Valley, Ca
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 5:49 pm
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While I was never good enough to even think of superstardom, sometimes when the pressures of engineering and systems building get to me and others I have a phrase that helps to lighten the load.
I tell them, "I should have stuck with music. I coulda been a has been by now." |
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George Kimery
From:
Limestone, TN, USA
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 7:53 pm
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| There is something called "Star Quality" that comes into play. It is hard to put your finger on exactly what it is, but some have it and some don't. Talent seems to take a back seat to "Star Quality." Being in the right place, not being ahead of your time, hooking up with a good manager, etc. all seem to be more important than talent. There are many, many singers out there that are better than most of the so called stars. But if everything comes together and they don't have that star quality, I think they will be a one or two hit success, then will fade into ablivion. A "star" is a product that has to be marketed just like selling anything else. Conway Twitty was an item to be marketed. Hank Jr. is marketed to the 30 year old beer drinking roudy croud. Off stage, he is totally different as was Conway. So was Elvis, and the list goes on an on. The image of a performer is what is put on the shelf to sell to the public. The packaging, so to speak. I think that is why some make it big and some don't. Look at Willie Nelson. He never made it big until he was packaged with the long hair, beard, and bandana head band. He was a pretty big star before this, but nothing like he became after changing the packaging. David Allen Coe tried going from the outlaw look to a clean shaven suit and tie type of guy. It didn't work. His fans wouldn't accept the new image. So, he wisely went back to the way his fans saw him. If you don't have what it takes to develop a big following in your area, then you probably don't have what it takes to develop a national or international following. Just my opinion on the subject. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 6 Jul 2005 9:06 pm
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As an aside, the phrase "You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle." is a very very well known and used phrase, especially in marketing circles. It has been around for at least 30 years that I know of and was even quoted in a famous Seinfeld episode where Kramer gets a "job".
No need to get the permission of a forum member to use that old chestnut. |
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jim milewski
From:
stowe, vermont
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Posted 7 Jul 2005 3:31 am
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| or the guy who worked a famous circus following the elephants with a shovel and wheelbarrel was asked did he ever feel like quiting his job, he replied, "what! and give up show business", I guess in his eyes "he made it big" |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 7 Jul 2005 5:19 am
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| George K.. very well stated.. I really enjoyed your perspective! I was especially interested when you said "NOT being ahead of your time".. GREAT insight!!.. It is a shame that great talent is actually PENALIZED in the music industry for being "ahead of the curve" so to speak. You would think the exact OPPOSITE would be the case... alas, we all know better.... bob |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 7 Jul 2005 6:44 am
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The story about Col Parker and Elvis comes back to me, as told to me by Little Roy Wiggins. He said he was in Col Parker's office with several other people and they were discussing talent and Col Parker stated he could take that "kid in Memphis" and make him a star. There was a wager made between one of the people in the office and Col Parker.
Col Parker contacted Elvis, arranged the Management deal. Booked Elvis into Miami, put up billboards that "Elvis is coming", hired a group of girls to meet him at the plane, etc. The rest is history. However, given the opportunity, it was Elvis who had the charisma and was able to build upon that and become the super star.
(edited for typo's. Damned computer can't speel). [This message was edited by Jack Stoner on 07 July 2005 at 07:46 AM.] |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 7 Jul 2005 7:27 am
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The music business is a business first and foremost. Like any business, marketing is a big part of it. Without good marketing, publicity, distribution, etc, no one is going to make it regardless of talent. This is true in the visual arts as well. Talent is the raw material: you can't promote a no talent for too long and get away with it. But talent is just the beginning. Good management and promotion are equally important if not more important. The most successful people are the ones that realize this early on. The rest play their local church group, retirement homes, community benefit concerts, and so on. (Not that there is anything wrong with that).
Like Edison said, it's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Same goes in music. Talent probably means 1%, the other 99% is marketing. |
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