Bakelite Ric Harmonics

Bob Stone · From: Gainesville, FL, USA

I'm thorioughly enjoying the pre-1937 Bakelite Ric six-string I recently acquired, but there is one significant disappointment: the harmonics just aren't that strong. My 1956 Fender Stringmaster 2 x 8 has much stronger harmonics. Also, the sound of the pick attack when playing harmonics on the Ric is annoyingly loud. Maybe that's because I'm trying so hard to make the harmonics louder.

I'd be interested to hear what other Bakelite Ric owners have to say about harmonics on their instruments.

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Check your bridge. Some, if not all, bakelite bridges have "V" grooves. The bottom of the "V" should be pointed sharp. On many I've seen, these bottoms tend to be mashed and the string lays flat down on the rounded bottom. The way it should be however, the string should only touch on the sides of the "V" and not the bottom.
If this ocurs, you will experience a loss of sustain and harmonics would be dificult to play.
I dont know what to tell you to do if this is the case on your guitar. All I can tell you is: DO NOT use a V-file as they will also create a round bottom. These "V" grooves where maschined (mill). You might be able to have it re-touched...
If your guitar is a 1937, the bridge is an integral part of the body's molding, making it a really hot gamble to go and try to maschine around there...
Pick-up positioning is also very touchy on some of these guitars. However you could check out the guitar "un-plugged" to hear if it would really sings those harmonics or not. If it's dead un-plugged, moving the pick-up won't help either.
Finally, string gauge selection can be a touchy issue, especially on a 22" scale.

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The future belongs to culture.

jaydee@bellsouth.net

[This message was edited by J D Sauser on 18 September 2000 at 09:02 AM.]

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

My 7-stringer and the 6-stringer that was stolen were both EXCELLENT w/harmonics. I seem to have to position my right hand slightly different than on other guitars I've played; short scale maybe? It's a great machine!

J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

Ray, both were stolen?

It's true, it would seem that the harmonics never seem to be right on the 12th fret up. And it's diferent from guitar to guitar....
I've come to the point where I've stopped to look for it and just kind'a work my right hand in, somehow. Works better than all the stress of visually hunting for two frets at a time and still have to wonder why it didn't cut it...

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The future belongs to culture.

jaydee@bellsouth.net

Jim Smith · From: Midlothian, TX, USA

I don't play a lap steel, but I know from looking at many older pedal steels, that their fretboards were WAY off, especially above the 12th fret. Could that possibly be the problem?

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

My 7 string Rick has great harmonics. And it also has that Rick "moan", that JB was so famous for. Incidently not all Ricks have that moan. And some have it more or less.

If you listen closely to JB with the original Hank Williams recordings, you will hear it real clear. It is THAT sound that got me really hooked on steel guitar. Took me almost 50 yrs to find a steel that I could half way get it. Course no human on earth can do it like Jerry Byrd. Plus back in those days, his harmonics were sharp, sweet and crystal clear.

But like all of us, when age does its thing, we tend to muff them now more often than not.

carl

Lynn Kasdorf · From: Waterford Virginia, USA

The problem must be the way your guitar is set up, because all of my Ricks have incredible sustain- in fact probably the most of any in my collection. I have a 7 string and a 6 string black & white bakelite, and a short scale fry pan ('36 I think). Harmonics just go on forever on these things...

And, on the Fender side of things- I have a 2x8 string master (60's?), a '53 3x8 custom, and a '51 single 8. Both of the customs have significantly more sustain that the stringmaster. The stringmaster sounds incredible, but i have much more trouble doing harmonic slides on it than on the customs.
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"You call that thing a guitar?"

[This message was edited by Lynn Kasdorf on 19 September 2000 at 12:09 PM.]

Bob Stone · From: Gainesville, FL, USA

Thanks guys. I'm glad I asked. It's not a question of me not hitting the harmonics right, it's definitely the guitar. The pickup is strong, loud and well balanced across all 6 strings.

The Ric is pre-1937 (patent pending pickup), so it has an integral nut and bridge. I'll look closely at those grooves--they seem likely to be the source of the problem. Sounds like time for a consultation with Wayne Tanner too. I'll let you know how this turns out.

I know some very good instrument repair people who use superglue to fill worn string grooves in plastic guitar nuts so they can re-shape them. Anyone heard of this being done on Bakelite Rics? It's a little scary to me.

Thanks again.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Bob,

Do get with Wayne Tanner. He knows more about the mechnanics of Rick's than anyone on this earth I do believe.

Ask him who did Tom Brumley's "redo" job on his 7 string Rick. The nut grooves were in bad shape. The people who he sent it to, built the bakelite back up and regooved it did a great job. I saw it afterwards.

God bless you with what ever you do,

carl

Bob Stone · From: Gainesville, FL, USA

Thanks, Carl. I just emailed Wayne.

This Forum is mighty handy!

George Keoki Lake · From: Edmonton, AB., Canada

Just in passing...I recall many years ago at one of the steel guitar conventions, a chap approached Jerry stating it was almost darned near impossible to get any DECENT harmonics from his bakelite. Jerry placed that guitar on his lap and proceeded to produce what you'd expect to hear from the Master. Absolutely gorgeous, brilliant harmonics. Needless to mention, that guy's jaw dropped in amazement....'nuf said.

Garryharris · From: Hendersonville, TN USA

"V" grooves, you must be joking. It seems to me that only when you pick with open strings that this would possibly make a difference. When the steel bar is placed on the string wouldn't that erase any benefits from a perfect fit in the "V" groves? What about the little "U" rollers on a pedal guitar, are they inferior to the "V" groove theory?

John Drury · From: Gallatin, Tn USA

Check the neck for a bow, the earlier bakelites didn't have the metal inserts in the neck and when they bow it shortens the scale length. When you are dealing with a 22 1/2" scale it doesnt take much.

John Drury
NTSGA #0003

Bob Stone · From: Gainesville, FL, USA

Hi--I've been on the road for a few days, so just now reading the Forum for the first time in a while.

Upon close inspection of the string grooves in the NUT (there are no grooves in the bridge)and playing the Ric unplugged it seems the grooves are the problem. The 1st string groove is the most worn and that string is the worst offender. When played acoustically you can actually hear the string slopping around under initial picking attack.
The groove for the 2nd string is in much better condition and the harmonics on that string are quite good.

Now all I have to do is get the right repair done.

Ron · From: Hermiston, Oregon

Check the slots and clean them of any foren matter in them. If the string solts are to large for the string they can have a whisiling sound to them. Unplug the guitar and fermly pick the strings with the bar on the strings if th soung goes away then the problum will be at the nut . The slot should be ramped down to the end of the string. If the string slot is to wide for the string you can build it up wits supper glue.then regrove it with string files of the propper size. If the slot is v groved it can wear out quicker. I bought a file for Japenise saws whitch has a knife edge. I got this from Harber Freight. A hook sharpener would work but it wil not file the botton oa the slot.

Hope this will help .

Ron Frazier

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