More signs of our times

John De Maille · From: On a Mountain in Upstate Halcottsville, N.Y.

My band was knocked out of a job last year, under similar circumstances. We were replaced by a guitar player, who sang to soundtracks a'la "kareoke".The owners said it was the new and up and coming thing. I've been to several weddings lately, and I can tell you that, that's the sorrowfull truth. All canned music, with a BOZO or two thrown in.

Tony Farr · From: Madison, Tennessee, USA (deceased)

That kind of crap is what's putting all of us guys out of work. It's getting to where you have trouble even buying a job. There are a lot of guys that will undercut a good band and could care less.

Whip Lashaway · From: Monterey, Tenn, USA

The guys in my band were talking just the other day about gigs. Where are we going to play in another few years? Between Kareoke and the fact that most of our clientel are gray haired! Those places that do still have a Country band will be loosing a lot of business in a few years. Patrons will be dead or in a rest home somewhere. We have to figure out a way to get young people more into Country music. I don't know how to do that without comprimising the music and I refuse to do that. Don't get me wrong, we play rock and blues but, it's usually the old stuff. Seems like we can't get any response to the new music (country or rock).What do we do guys? I don't know!
Whip

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Whip Lashaway
Sierra E9/B6 12 string
Sierra E9/B6 14 string

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

No reflection on the two guys who have been in Florids's Hernando-Pasco-Citrus county areas playing the two Piece stuff for years..I doubt if they got Five hundred bucks they usually make I am told by My American Legion Commander 50-75 plus tips. I wouldn't waste my time supporting them or a kareoke night.But some committe person at this club is counting the money and saying let's have another country night. There use to be an old saying "You get what you pay for". Club owners and MGRs have changed that to "Let's not pay and make more". Times may be changing but Club Owners are still the same.

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CJC

Greg Simmons · From: where the buffalo (used to) roam AND the Mojave

This seems to be happening everywhere; I was just talking to some of the folks (who are in my opinion anyway) part of the best real country band around these parts and they have been notably absent from a “Traditional Tuesday” night at a local club. Previous times I’d seen them play there, they were packing the folks in.

These are folks who’ve been picking/singing since the fifties, and the singer recorded some sides with Owen Bradley (this on recommedation from Webb Pierce, after he heard her while up here on some of these package shows that used to come up to Canada), so, you get the idea, they’ve “paid their dues”.

Anyway apparently the whole thing amounted to the club owner being unwilling to pay a measly $50 “extra” – very lame, but the latest is the club now “wants them back” so I’m sure it’ll be on the bands terms

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Greg Simmons
Custodian of the Official Sho~Bud Pedal Steel Guitar Website

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

This will not change as long as people support it.

Don't go, and tell the Entertainment Committee why.

You'll have some say, "support country music, even with less musicians, if you support it will grow and they will bring back Steel, etc."

I don't believe it! If it's successful without the proper instruments it will never come back to what it was.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I have a friend who is a professional drummer, he showed up for a gig once at a bar where it was only him. The owner told him to set up over at the juke box, handed him a roll of quarters and told him, to feed the juke and play along with whatever comes up.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I did a gig just last week...singer, lead player, fiddle, and steel. The lead player did computer-tracks for drums, bass, and piano. So...we were a 4 piece group with the sound of a 7 piece group. It's limiting as far as what you can do, but since I'll only play once or twice a month now, I have to take what I can get. It keeps my chops up, and gets me out of the house.

At least the bass is always on-key, and the drums aren't too loud!

If I had my "druthers" though, I'd rather play with a 4-6 piece "live" group.

Joey Ace · From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

Can he program the drum machine to get louder and faster as the night goes on?

Bob Hoffnar · From: Austin, Tx

I've been picking up a fair amount of work where the only 2 people on stage are me and the singer/guitar player. I've been enjoying those gigs. 3 out of 4 gigs this week have been like that. Sunday: duets with a jazz guitar player, thurs: standards Sinatra type gig with guitar and bass, friday:indie rock gig with singer/guitar player and maybe some loops.
saterday:country bar gig with Fred who plays guitar, sings and plays bass drum with his foot.

This is a pretty normal week for me.

Bob

[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 01 November 2002 at 02:32 PM.]

Rick Garrett · From: Tyler, Texas

I live up in East Texas and the kareoke thing is growing by leaps and bounds here. They have clubs with open mic night where folks sing along with canned music. Im not a gigging musician by a ways yet but I think you guys just gotta hang around till the fad is over. Seems to me music keeps on coming around in full circles. Just when you think its over some young hotshot country star will come along or even a Robert Randolph and boom! You're back in business. This too shall pass.

Rick Garrett

ajm · From: Los Angeles

The one man band concept to me has its plusses and minuses.

There is a hotel near me that features a guitarist who does this concept. He is not country; sort of lounge type top 40 stuff. He is a very good player (acoustic and electric) and singer. He has sequenced a keyboard, drum machine, bass parts and effects together. But more importantly, he has taken the time to do each song right and didn't just throw them together.

He is as enjoyable to listen to as any band. He only has to deal with one ego: his own. He doesn't have to worry if the rest of "the band" will show up, or if they'll be able to perform when they do. If "the band" needs to turn down, it's simple to do, and the volume stays down and won't start creeping back up. On the plus side he has the same arrangement every time so "the band" always starts and stops properly. On the down side, it's impossible to stretch out a tune with an impromptu "jam".

IMHO the biggest problem with all of this is the people who just throw this stuff together and go out and gig. It sounds second rate because it is second rate because the people who do it are second rate performers. But then again, how many full bands do you know who take the same approach? I personally would really, honestly listen to a DJ.

I have always disliked karaoke. IMHO it provides a path to get up on a stage that has traditionally been reserved for musicians to someone who is usually somewhat intoxicated. In the process, intentionally or not, in my mind they are making fun of and simplifying the act of and work that it takes to be a real musician. They got up on a stage and sang so it's easy and anyone can do it and they can do it so they are almost a musician and since they got up on a stage then in actuality they are a musician, right?

I say that if it's really that simple, then they should put a band together and go out and do it. Practice for years. Buy the equipment. Deal with all of the personalities. Audition the players (or at least the ones who show up). It's easy; anybody can do it.

At the rate we're going, the next thing you know we'll be taking actors/actresses with little formal writing education, putting them in front of a camera, and calling them journalists.

Joe Delaronde · From: Selkirk, Manitoba, Canada

In my area when people are approached to buy tickets for socials, etc, they are starting to as "Who's playing?" If it isn't a live band, they refuse to buy tickets. The last 4 socials I have been at, employed live 4 to 6 peice bands at premium $$$$$$. So things are looking up around here. People are fed up with canned music being shoved on them.
Joe

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

You're right Joe, "canned" music can sound "perfect". But even if it does, it still sounds "canned".

Allan Thompson · From: Scotland.

Hi all, I posted this last week in Steel Players. I think it fits here.
I just got back from playing at a so called country music weekend at one of the big holiday camps here in Scotland. I have not been to one of these weekends for a few years but was asked to sit in with a band at this particular venue. The first thing I found was a dance floor packed with line dancers, dancing to some tune that was anything but country. The next was that 90% of the singers at this venue used backing tracks and no band, and played anything but country music. This particular holiday camp has three ballrooms running at the same time, all with so called live music and believe me you`d be pushed to find somebody singing or playing a country song.

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

I really wonder why one can say ,At least the drummer keeps time and the bass keeps the same volume? Any serious band leader would replace inefficient players. It's called professionalism.those not serious need not apply. E.O.S. there is always plenty of time to party and I found at times some did not know the difference between a job and a party.O I found plenty of time to party.

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CJC

Ray Montee · From: Portland, Oregon (deceased)

Just a thought: Years ago, dance halls were the greatest; Then they took a slide to lounges with western atmosphere and booze; then lodges crept in but would hire only 3 or 4 pieces; then came mud wrestling women; then "chip and dale" strip-dancers; then nude dancing females......frequently followed by bankruptcy of the establishment. (atleast in this area)
Wouldn't it be neat, if a reasonably large group of "local live musicians" could get together, with no immediate thought about money.......concentrating instead, on "class" appearance and "Class" musical arrangements. (most people come to see something "different" and/or "exciting", not just a stage full of scrungy looking guys that they could view at the local bar and grill or the biker hangout)
Acquire the use of some vacant, SMALL size industrial warehouse with reasonable parking. Have some professionally prepared and printed circulars (and posters in store windows) distributed at all the clubs in town and placed on car windshields in the parking lots at all the local taverns and clubs and lounges in the region. Not to forget rubbing elboes with the local news paper entertainment editor.
Bill the "once a month" or "once per quarter" event as nothing more than a steel
guitar "JAM"; public invited with no "cover charge" or "admission". Maybe a local western station might even be pursuaded to do a remote or a local "name" as host. Might even tie the event into some kind of a legitimate FUND RAISER for the aged, decrepid, feeble-minded, depraved, unemployed and generally unlikeable local musicians HOME.
After repeating the project once, twice or maybe three times.......then a collective determination might be made whether to continue the project.
At that time, a door charge might be possible to institute.
I know this will likely raise the eire of some of our Forumites yet out of adversity, many very successful businesses have been created during my lifetime. For some it's much easier to kill a project before it has a chance than it is to support a worthy project. With the egos of some musicians and wanna-be's, this might be an impractible and totally impossible undertaking. But then again, WHO KNOWS?
The tools are there. Are there any musicians willing to pickup the tools or are we all going to be content to see our profession fade into oblivion......where in many regions, it appears to be headed at light speed?

Glenn Austin · From: Montreal, Canada

It is a known fact that people will spend money on entertainment even during the hardest of times. If you are going to be booked every weekend to play, then you need to have a great package to SELL to people, and be willing to organise it a year in advance. Two things that most bands don't seem to be able to do.

There are a lot of these one man bands up here too, but I don't think for a minute that they've stolen anything from traditional bands. It was there for the taking. It has nothing to do with the public supporting it. Most people take what's put in front of them, that's why people eat at McDonalds. They don't know the difference.

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

At the last steel steel show in St. Louis, a few friends of mine and I, all long time musicians, went over to the Adams Mark hotel for dinner and enjoyed the lounge band.
We couldn't see the whole band (there looked to be 3 members) from where we were sitting.
Now we are all semi-professional musicians and none of us could tell if there was a real bass player and drummer or if it was a programmed sequencer (it turned out bass and drums were electronic)
Point: the electronic stuff DOES sound good.
The real trouble is, an ALL electronic band sounds good too....in other words a CD through a good sound system....a DJ.
We're competing against the world of electronics. Who do you thnk will win?

ajm · From: Los Angeles

A traditional band sounds good if the players are good and take the time to learn the songs and do it right. I'm old school and seeing a traditional band is always my first choice, IF they're good.

A one man band (or two or whatever) that has some of the parts done electronically sounds good IF the players are good AND they take the time to really program the parts right. If they use the pre-programmed parts in the drum machine that sound like the rhythm box in a 1960's home organ, then I probably won't be around long. If they just throw the thing together then IMHO they're no better nor worse than a traditional band that just throws it together.

I understand the positives and negatives of a DJ. As a musician I don't like it, but I can deal with it. (I still despise karaoke.)

As for replacing band members who are not up to snuff, in my experience that is much easier said than done. That is why many musicians have gone the one man band and/or the home recording route.

The other alternative is to be a "hired gun" and just sit in with bands. You don't spend time practicing with the band during the week, someone else gets the joy of dealing with all of the personalities, you play your parts as best you can, you take the check and head home. I find that doing this I am much less emotionally attached and involved with the band and there are fewer headaches and heartaches.

But in my fantasy world I still dream of being part of a real live band where all of the guys are friends off of the bandstand as well. I just realize how difficult it is to acheive that.

Jim Florence · From: wilburton, Ok. US * R.I.P.

You're looking at it all wrong. It wasn't the clubowners that started this decline, it was the musicians themselves. In my younger days we used the philosophy that the audience came to be "Entertained" we allways knew that if the customer was only interested in hearing good music, he would go home and listen to the record. We would never dress [or] undress to look like slobs.
Sure we had our share of slobs, usually the singer who would be too drunk to continue into the second set, but he wasn't dressed like a slob, and people still liked him. The band would continue and people had a good time, and had something to talk about the next day. Can you imagine , Liberace, Little richard, Fran Sinatra,Ray Price, or Ernest Tubb showing up looking unwashed and in a torn undershirt, the point is they didn't pay their money to see what was ordinary to them. They came to be "Entertained" , now we have to figure out what that means

Jim Florence · From: wilburton, Ok. US * R.I.P.

You're looking at it all wrong. It wasn't the clubowners that started this decline, it was the musicians themselves. In my younger days we used the philosophy that the audience came to be "Entertained" we allways knew that if the customer was only interested in hearing good music, he would go home and listen to the record. We would never dress [or] undress to look like slobs.
Sure we had our share of slobs, usually the singer who would be too drunk to continue into the second set, but he wasn't dressed like a slob, and people still liked him. The band would continue and people had a good time, and had something to talk about the next day. Can you imagine , Liberace, Little richard, Fran Sinatra,Ray Price, or Ernest Tubb showing up looking unwashed and in a torn undershirt, the point is the audience didn't come to see what they could see anytime,anywhere. They came to be entertained
and now all we have to do is figure out what is "entertaining" nowadays. Another thing is the TV. We see big stars all the time on TV, in those days if you were going to see a star, you would have to Go somewhere , not just sit back in your favorite chair.

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

Glenn and Jim, you guys hit it on the head! I am in a band that is booked six months in advance and a year for summer work. We regularly open for major acts in the summer and are in good demand. Why? We have fifty grand of equipment including four grand in lights. We have a backdrop, and sound man. We only have players that come to BURN and are dressed to a tee. I have two Manuel jackets that look like they are lit from a Christmas tree when the lights hit them. We REHEARSE. What a concept! We have a killer lead singer/acoustic player who has a degree
in marketing and communications and is a program director for a local radio station. He entertains! What a concept! Anyone who thinks that they are going to go on stage with sneakers and a tee shirt, sing and play off key, not rehearse, with four or less pieces is kidding themselves. We have five and are considering a sixth. I see it all the time. I play four instruments in the band and also sing high harmonies ( usually while playing steel). I am NOT bragging. This is what it takes. We're getting a grand for new years. The bands out there did it to themselves. We have an open market because no one else in our area is professional enough to organize and rehearse the way we did. It just comes down to professionalism and hard work the same way with every business.