Jimmie River and the Cherokees

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

In previous topics I've mistakenly called this group the Western Cherokees (thats what the tape had written on it).
For Christmas I got a copy of 'Brisbane Bop' the CD by Jimmie River and the Cherokees featuring Vance Terry.
Cut live between 1961-1964; this material was issued as an LP in the early 1980s, I used to have a bad tape of that, now I have the CD version which has extra tracks and a better sound.

Fantastic, Jimmie and Vance twin on so much material, Rivers is a killer hillbilly bop jazz guys and the group is nice and tight.
The group only cut a handful of singles and backed a few other artist on sides in the 1950s and 1960s, they formed in 1954 and split a decade later. Chuck Wright of Wright/Sierra steels was the steel guy, then Vance came in at the end of 1959.
This group is hot, I'm sure their studio sides wouldn't be half as jazzy, but I'd still buy them!

Did anyone on the Forum ever see them live?

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The future ain't what it used to be

Ron · From: Hermiston, Oregon

Sounds very interesting. I would like to hear more.

Ron

Mitch Drumm · From: Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake

I saw them live 4 or 5 times, but only in the 1980s, not in their prime at DeMarco's in Brisbane. Vance and Jimmie were obviously of one mind musically. The CD was taken from Vance's personal tapes of over a hundred songs, some running over 10 minutes in length.

I don't think they ever did any studio sides together. Or at least never released any.

Rivers did some studio work without Vance around the SF area, backing up Tommy Duncan on record, among a few others.

Rivers did one great recording under his own name on Cavalier, one side of which is "I
Don't Love-a Nobody", with Chuck Wright on steel. The odd thing about it is that Chuck's style and tone on this recording is identical to the sound Vance was getting on the Sierra guitar that Chuck built when I first heard Vance live in the 1980s. I'd have sworn it was Vance on the Rivers record.

Far as i know, Jimmie is still alive and living in Placerville CA. Not sure how much he plays now--i think he is dealing with arthritis. I last saw him play at a tribute in San Francisco maybe 5 or 6 years ago, at which he was presented with a hand made white double neck guitar, virtually identical to the double neck Gibson (or is it a Gretsch?) you can see in old photos of Jimmie.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

It was a Gibson. A few years ago I was playing at DeMarcos along with a number of other bands, when an older gentleman came up to the front of the stage and introduced himself as Vance Terry. I think I said something like...what a pleasure to met you, you're one of my heroes, and I was already nervous before I met you...

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

I just love that record. Sometimes I wonder if other tracks recorded at the time might pop up in the future. I hope so.
Jason, have you noticed how strongly Rivers' guitar work is influenced by Jimmy Raney ? Especially in cuts like "Slow boat to China". Neat.
-John

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

I loved it, I felt there was a touch of Barney Kessell, Jimmy Bryant and every West Coast jazz hotshot guitarist there was in the 1950s seems to have influenced this set.

Mitch I thought the Cavalier material was pre-Terry as Vance came in after most of the sides were issued. There's a strong connection to Red Murrell, I just assumed it came from Red and Jimmie working as deejays.
(actually I'm not sure, but I think most of Rivers related sides are pre-1960, and from Mitch writes it seems that way).
When I think about it, the whole CD's linear notes and the stories about DeMarco's joint paint the club as a real rough neck joint, I imagine a lot of people avoided it accordingly.

Mitch, when you saw them in the 1980s, was Gene Duncan around,or had he passed away by that point?

Mitch Drumm · From: Frostbite Falls, hard by Veronica Lake

Jason:

I think the first time I saw Rivers and Terry live was outdoors at a festival of some kind in San Francisco, probably late 1983. Gene Duncan was on vocals. I think he passed away later in the 1980s. Judging from the surviving tapes of their DeMarco's performances, probably half of their repertoire was instrumental, and as i recall Jimmie sang at times as well as Gene. I haven't listened to the tapes in a long time, for which i should be drawn and quartered. to put it mildly, they were a wide-ranging outfit--like doing "honky tonk" followed by "i won't go huntin' with you jake", then "cherokee", then the old hawaiian tune "little brown gal"--you gotta love it.

i can't speak for DeMarco's in the old days, but it is relatively sedate nowadays, little puking and fistfighting. a sign of the times. the place is still in business, and still has the great photos of artists who have played their on the wall--johnny cash among others. it's a bar more than a dance hall--maybe 30 by 90 feet.

Chas: i was likely there the day you mentioned, as i always drove down from santa rosa to talk to vance even if he wasn't playing. he was living in or near sacramento and i wasn't seeing him as much as i had in the 1980s. was that the day they gave the tribute to rivers and rivers didn't make it? i remember one wingding there 6 or 8 years ago at which a number of LA bands showed up. i well remember classic versions of "playboy" and "red ball express". mebbe that was your band? are you the guy who said he had some of Bigsby's motorcyle parts?

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Mitch, I was with the Radio Ranch Straight Shooters, and we were playing without our drummer. I don't think this was the tribute, (I was there one time, not playing, where Jimmy didn't show up, but his guitar did) and there were a number of LA bands.

If anyone was connected to Bigsby motorcyle parts, it would have been Paul Greenstein, He knows the guy in the San Gabriel Valley who owns the Bigsby motorcycle.

I would add that I think there was some Nat King Cole Trio influence on Brisbane Bop.

[This message was edited by chas smith on 26 December 2001 at 06:24 PM.]

Jussi Huhtakangas · From: Helsinki, Finland

DeMarco's was leased about a year or so ago to a person, who turned it into a "gothic-rock" bar

I don't know exactly how much of the interior was changed, but I assume, that most of the memorabilia on the walls is now gone. We played there twice before the change and it was thrilling, they still sold buffalo-burgers too. The change was a tremendous loss for the Bay-area rockabilly and roots music fans, everyone loved the place. I think they still have booked some rab-shows, but it's not the same anymore.
I have some additional Vance-tapes from the same era, where Vance is playing some beautiful E9-stuff. The sound quality, however is not as good as on the released tape, so it's easy to understand why they were left out.

Jason Odd · From: Stawell, Victoria, Australia

Honestly, I feel like a wannabe hepcat next to you guys, sheesh.
Great post guys... Ilove it.

I have to say that it feels great to have a legit copy of the release and not just an old tape made from a friend of a friends LP, etc.
Now... uh, a Bigsby motorcyle?

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Jeremy Wakefield and Deke Dickerson were telling me about the motorcycle Paul Bigsby designed with a partner in the 1930's... was it called a Concord? I think the name starts with a "C"... and they allowed as how in the collectible motorcycle circles, one would cost you over $100K if you could find one.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

P Gleespen · From: Toledo, OH USA

I think the bike was called "Crocker".

But more on topic, I love the Brisbane Bop cd. (not to mention the King Cole trio!)

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

The Crocker was named after Allen Crocker, who owned the Indian dealership here in the '30s. He and Paul Bigsby 'hotrodded' Indian Scouts to race flat track, you have to remember, the Scout (750cc) from the factory was reputed to beat Harley's racer. They added overhead cams and valves to these and from what I heard, were indomitable. At the end of the '30's, they decided to build their own, and it was the Crocker, the "Vincent Black Shadow" of American motorcycles. I'm sure you've heard the story of the missing 40 Crockers that the Arizona Highway Patrol ordered and nobody knows where they are.

Paul Bigsby also made at least one Bigsby motorcycle, which was not a Crocker. This, by the way, was how he met up with Merle Travis. Travis was a biker and at one of the tracks, he met PA and asked him if he could make a guitar for him. The story goes that PA told him if he brought him a template, he could do it.

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