Louder is not better

Keith Grubb · From: Petaluma, CA, USA

I just went to a Jimmie Vaughn concert recently and boy was it loud!!!! I luckily thought ahead and brought some earplugs from work, otherwise by ears would still be ringing.

I like Jimmie Vaughn, but I can't understand for the life of me why anyone would choose to play so loudly. Maybe I should say I can't understand why anyone would want to listen to music that was so loud. My idea of enjoying good music doesn't have anything to do with having ringing ears for days after the concert.

Anyways, does anyone else out there think that music at concerts is being played way too loudly? I'm not an old fart, I'm only 28 but I absolutely hate loud music. Let me know if anybody has any thoughts on this subject.

CrowBear Schmitt · From: Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France

Yes Keith, i'm w: ya' on this one !
To have Impact does'nt mean jammin' Decibels into the Listeners ears !
i often find the guys runnin' the PAs are just crankin' it out.
Elektricity has been the most significant contribution to Contemporary Musik and has permitted better Quality Diffusion of Sound.
Altec Lansing in movie theaters and the infamous Nuremberg rallies w: Telefunken got the Volume goin',back in the late 30s.
i find the progress since then amazingly significant, but megaWatts just don't cut it in my book.
Here again is the example of Quantity over Quality ! Too much,not enough.
High volume is not only a Crutch, it's real harmful on the player and listener.
So Join your Local Musik Police and help enforce Decibel Control or just make sure you get your plugs w: the ticket or at the gate !
Steel can't stand all that Volume...

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

What did you guys say ? My ears are still ringing from the 70's...

TP

Ron Whitworth · From: Yuma,Ariz.USA Yeah they say it's a DRY heat !!

Hello;
Just my .02 here..I have quit SEVERAL bands over the years because they could NOT find the volume knobs on their amps & P.A.'s
Many were friends of mine + some were very good bands.This was/is probably the major reason that i have my own band now.I have total control of the volume.When the people around here see my band advertised they know they will NOT leave the dance with their ears hurting..Sounds better + i get some jobs because of this fact..I have NEVER liked the loud volume & to me; you really just do not need it but i only play dance music!!!...Ron

[This message was edited by Ron Whitworth on 19 November 2001 at 02:59 AM.]

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

"Loud" is really subjective and the older we get the louder it sounds. Discounting the obvious loud rock concerts, I've played in some clubs, such as VFW's, etc that would raise hell if the music was much above a whisper.

The main gig I'm doing now has mostly older retirees (snowbirds) for the audience. We do not play loud (I've even been told to turn up as some couldn't hear the steel) but one person told me he wasn't coming back because the music was too loud.

I'm 63 and maybe my hearing level has decreased after doing this since 1959, but if it's too low the music/band sounds dead or has dead spots and sounds like crap too.
That's part of live performances. If someone wants it at a whisper, go home and play your stereo system at whatever level your comfortable with.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

When I'm playing, I like for the band to be loud enough that I can't hear people talking. But if I'm being paid, I'll do whatever's required to satisfy the client. In a lot of places, if you play too loud you don't get asked back.

One of the biggest selling features of The Open Hearts Band is the fact that we can play quietly. A band that plays all original music and plays too loud wouldn't find much work around here. So we only have one strike against us.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (E7, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)

kyle reid · From: Butte,Mt.usa

In most cases, being way too loud is a lack of talent cover!

ajm · From: Los Angeles

I could be wrong, but my guess is that if you heard JV in a small (or bigger) hall, it wasn't the bands' fault that it was too loud. The guy to blame would be the chucklehead at the mixing board; he's the one that's really in control.

I have posted several times on this subject before and agree that bands in bars and dances play way too loud. (Concerts in big places are kind of another subject, IMHO.) And to get one thing straight: it's not rock bands, it's not blues bands, it's not country bands. IT'S ALL OF THE ABOVE. I hate seeing an overly loud rock band just as much as one doing country. The patrons can't hear each other talk without screaming, a guy can't introduce himself to a girl without screaming at each other (what a great way to start off the relationship), it's painful to listen to, it's usually distorted, the band can't really hear each other....the list just goes on.

I'll agree wholeheartedly that when I go to hear a band or audition for one, if they're a bunch of volume freaks I automatically have suspicions about them. I refuse to do it anymore; if a Princeton Reverb isn't enough (on guitar) for at least a practice session, then something may be wrong.

It's kind of interesting to me how we contradict ourselves every day on this forum. The same guys who will say that "A Twin Reverb's not enough" and then go out and buy a couple of Nashville 400s or a rack system with 300 watts per side will then turn around and rag on their own ilk for being too loud. But I will admit that half of the reason most guys buy too powerful of an amp is just so they can "keep up" with everybody else.

One thing that we need to remember is that when you're not directly in the line of fire your amp is not too loud to you, but 30 feet from the stage you're taking peoples' heads off because of the volume. The next time you're at a gig, don't readjust anything and tilt your amp back and point it up at you. Then leave it that way for a while to see how much you like it.

Ken Lang · From: Simi Valley, Ca

Anyone remember that old saying, "If you can't play good, play loud."

I like it a little loud so I can hear the music over the ringing in my ears and other disabilities from 30 years of playing music.

I draw the line when on the way home, the nonexistant birds are chirping and all the conversation sounds like it's filtered through a cardboard box before it reaches me.

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

I used to have an ensemble, "art music", and the rule was, if you can't hear what everyone else is playing, you're playing too loud. I've found that this also applies to the bands I play in now with the exception of the occasional 'metal' band. That kind of music needs to be a loud shitstorm.

Keith Grubb · From: Petaluma, CA, USA

I certainly wasn't rying to put down Jimmie Vaughn. I do like his music, but not that loud. As I was leaving the concert I pulled out my ear plugs just to see if it really was that loud. It was!!!

The people in charge of the venue are probably the ones to blame for the volume. They were piping in music before the show that was too loud. This seems to be the rule with DJ at events too. I've bben to weddings and reunions with the same volume problems.

I understand that music has to be played at a certain volume to be heard at a venue, but I think there has to be a trade off between volume and the audiences' hearing. I love music and want to enjoy playing and listening well into retirement, so I try to protect my ears. I would definately recommend earplugs for those who woory about there ears.

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

Well a couple more cents worth. I was playing Guitar in a Country, 50's, 60's band a short while back here in Charlotte with a couple of guys who were probably 10 years younger than I. The guy on rhythm , who could not play anything other than power chords it seemed, played loud, and I'm talking loud. I was not playing Steel in this band ( I didn't even own one at the time ) as I was playing a B- Bender Tele with my Deluxe. One night the other guy was so loud and his amp was facing me directly, I went over and litterally turned his volume down at least
50%. They were totally indignant with me and never hired me again. Thank God for that blessing ! Looking back I can't imagine playing Steel with that situation as it was hard enough to play on the Tele and I was the primary guitar player ! I could have burned him off the stage but I chose to take the other road and "Stay Chilled" , after all it wasn't worth $75 to get stressed out.
They used to look at me and say 'Turn it Up" I looked back and said "Turn it down "...
I think I upset their goal of becoming the next Brooks and Dunn...

PS, Powerfull amps like Twins or Nashville 1000's don't imply more volume, they imply more clarity with less distortion. Eddie Van Halen once said in an article referring to his massive amp stacks " Yes they can be real loud but they are primarily for clarity and sustain" .

TP

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 20 November 2001 at 03:44 AM.]

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 20 November 2001 at 03:50 AM.]

Dave Robbins · From: Cottontown, Tnn. USA (deceased)

Huh?....What's that?....whatd'ya say? huh?...Huh?.....I can't hear ya , I've got a steel guitar in my ear!

Dave (...as long as the steel's "on top!" )

Joe Casey · From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

I once hired a bass player who made the drums rattle. I told him to turn down twice and during the break he said he couldn't hear himself. So the next set I let him hear himself ,I told everyone else to stop playing.The danceing stopped and he did too.He played after that at a ballanced level and that goes to show what paying attention can accomplish.Also having four other guys ready to kick your ass does get ones attention.

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CJC

Martin Abend · From: Berlin, Germany

still saving for in-ear monitoring...

When it gets too loud I just leave. (not when I'm on the stage, that is...). And I'm just 29.

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martin abend Pedal-Steel in Germany
s-10 sierra crown gearless 3 x4 - Regal RD45 - fender hotrod deluxe

Jeff Evans · From: Cowtown and The Bill Cox Outfit

It's amazing what some folk consider acceptable volume. Could this be an intelligence issue?

Keith: Protect your hearing--without apology--while you have it. Deaf musicians are ironic creatures, aren't they?

--Jeff
Old at 35?

chas smith R.I.P. · From: Encino, CA, USA

Martin, you will probably still have ears when you're 50. Years ago I played B3 in a '13 piece all white imitation reggae band', whose leader played so loud and out of tune, that for rehearsals, I brought in my aircraft headset ear protectors.

Engineers who fry their ears have short careers...from the recording industry.

Bill C. Buntin · Posted 21 Nov 2001 3:59 pm

I've got a PERMANENT ringing in my ears. It is a condition called "Tinnitus". It comes from permanent nerve damage in the ears. A result of (in my case) Years of overexposure to high stage volumes. Its my own fault for not wearing musician type earplugs. Too many gigs downtown Dallas at the West End Marketplace. WARNING! Don't let this happen to you. If you are playing with any band that tends to run too high stage volume, get some earplugs PDQ. Trust me folks, you don't want to get Tinnitus. IT WILL drive you crazy.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

For a long time, the bands kept getting louder and louder, and I kept up with them for some time by running a Super Twin through two twelves, and fifteen-inch SRO's. That was serious loud music. But, then I got older, and wiser, and more discriminating.

I finally realized the "loud thing" is nothing but youth-oriented bullcrap. I grew out of it, and I hope everyone else does the same. Now, when I check out a band, and a fellow musician asks me..."Why did you leave so soon?" I just say "You were just too friggen' loud!"

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

The band I play in has been using "in-ear" monitors and direct boxes for the fiddle, guitar, bass, and my steel. The drums are miked. Hence, no speakers on stage.

The result: Lower volume levels for the musicians and lower volume levels for the audience (if the sound guy is doing the right thing). Also, once the "in-ears" are adjusted the first time the sound is exactly the same for each gig. Regardless of the situation (indoors, outdoors, big stage, little stage, room acoustics, etc.). This also simplfies load-ins and load-outs and keeps the stage really clear of clutter.

It costs a few thousand dollars for a band to do this but it's well worth it if you can justify the cost.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn www.kevinfowler.com