Recommendations for Digital Piano??

Tony Rankin · From: Land O’ Lakes, FL

The piano player in the southern gospel quartet that I play with is looking at new digital pianos for stage use. Does anyone have any recommendations of what or what not to buy?

He is looking for 88 keys with excellent piano tone. Any guidance or advice will be appreciated.

Thanks!

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Hey Tony--I have a Roland RD 300. Got it in the 80's. It has, in my opinion, great sound. Of course proper amplification is an important part of the formula. Two negatives:

1) It is not expandable--no sound cards or anything. You have three acoustic piano voices, unbelievable vibrophone, harpsichord, clavinet, and two Fender Rhodes voices. But it is MIDI so in that sense it is expandable.

2) The action is too light. It is weighted and velocity sensitive but it would not fool a pianist. However I believe that they improved the RD series after I bought mine--maybe RD 300S? I'm not sure. But I've heard that they worked on the action.

This is an 88 key piano that I bought at the time because I had never heard a digital keyboard that sounded so good.
I know absolutely nothing about anything more recent. If he wants something new, sorry I can't help.

David Pennybaker · From: Conroe, TX USA

Be sure to check out the Kurzweil PC88 or PC88MX. I prefer the sound of these to the Rolands, though others will disagree.

Korg also makes a digital piano, though I forget the name of their latest incarnation.

I've never cared for the Yamaha's. Their "real" pianos are great, but I don't like their digital ones.

I believe Kurzweil also makes a unit that only has piano sounds (maybe just a few others) instead of the PC88. I don't know the comparison in price, nor in the sound quality.

Edit: the other reason I got the Kurzweil is that I like it's acoustic guitar sound.

For other non-piano sounds, I've always like Korg. Again, others will disagree.

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

[This message was edited by David Pennybaker on 13 February 2001 at 03:28 PM.]

Abe Stoklasa · From: Nashville, TN

Go find a GENERAL MUSIC Real Piano Pro 1 Digital Piano. THEY'RE NEW. NEW TECHNOLOGY - FIRST KEYBOARD TO USE IT (THAT'S WHY PEAVEY BOUGHT INTO THE COMPANY)! The other digital keyboards today use sounds called "samples", but this new technology is called "Wave ?something rather?"! Any way, they came out last summer, and I got mine for $999, but the retail price is $1299, but It's cheaper than a lot of the other professional models. It has strings, bass, piano, organs, harp, and much more and different variations for each one! It's GREAT! (It's definitly worth checking out)! They have a PRO 2, but the only difference is that they have a 2 track recorder for trying harmonies or whatever, but it's like a $200 difference between the two. It don't have a lot of fancy stuff like drums and all that! It's specifically designed to be used on stage. It has reverb, tone, effects, and volume, and all that on the keyboard, so it REALLY DOES work with EVERY amp! I can't say enough about it! You'll just have to check it out! Trust me! Trust me! Trust me! I can't emphasize this enough! This IS the REAL DEAL! I'm not advertising for them or anything, but you need to check this out! You won't find a better one, especially for that price!!!! Yamaha has good pianos, and so does Roland, BUT they aren't as professional as this company. Yamaha is more for students. And, This Piano is a GREAT GREAT GREAT STUDIO PIANO with INCREDIBLE INCREDIBLE INCREDIBLE tone!!!! You can hook it up to your computer and download MORE sounds off the internet, and it is compatible with almost every kind of digital computer studio!!! I'm telling you, that thing has got so many hook ups in the back of that thing, it's confusing! I haven't even used them all yet! This REALLY REALLY can't be beat for any price. This is quality made, and you can depend on it. It's got that feel of a real piano, and it comes with a Damper pedal. It has 88 keys. I just use the volume control on the keyboard for stuff, but if you want you can hook up a volume control, and just about anything else for that matter. It has a built-in pre-amp, so any headphones will go into the jack and you can get all the features, and its real clear and natural sounding, too! The headphone jack is a .25 in. plug. It weighs about the same as most digital pianos, but I recommend getting a sturdy stand, especially if playing in a bar (Not that you're playing in a bar, it's just that some types of stands aren't sturdy, and it might get top heavy). CLICK HERE TO GO TO THE OFFICIAL WEBPAGE OF GENERAL MUSIC'S REAL PIANO PRO SERIES!

If you don't think this is the piano for you, then go to www.generalmusic.com and I'm sure you can find the right piano for you, but I don't think you'll even want to look at another piano again after you look at this one. It's a simple, usable, affordable, quality made, great sounding, dependable, always on pitch piano. I wish other things in this world were as dependable and simple and quality made as this! If you have any more questions, email me or General Music/Peavey. - support@peavey.com (They've come to an alliance on this particular model - See, I told you that people would take notice)!

Here's a picture of the PRO 2 Model, but the PRO 1 looks exactly alike, only with 3 or so buttons less!

I guess that's all I have to say for now, but I may think of something in a while!

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Abraham -

My Website!
abraham@music.com
WBStokley.com
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Equipment - MSA D-10 Pedal steel, standel amp, George L 10-string bar, 2 finger picks and 1 thumb pick.

I'm creating a "Steel Guitar Calender" for 2002, so if you'd like to be in the calender, e-mail a picture of you and a short bio about your steel, yourself, and whatnot!

Bobby Lee, Thanks For The Service You've Put Into The Steel Guitar Forum!

Steel Guitar Forum Rocks!
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[This message was edited by abraham on 13 February 2001 at 04:09 PM.]

Abe Stoklasa · From: Nashville, TN

ONE MORE THING!!

THIS IS DEFINETLY THE PIANO OF THE FUTURE! IT'S TOTALLY UPGRADABLE, IT HAS NEW TECHNOLOGY, AND FOR THE ABOVE REASON (FIRST ONE TO USE THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY) IT MIGHT BE WORTH A LOT OF MONEY SOMEDAY! TAKE REAL GOOD CARE OF IT. I GUESS THAT'S MY ADVICE ON EVERYTHING THOUGH.

P. S. Sorry about the CAPS LOCK! I forgot I had it on! hehe

EDIT: The main focus of General Music is digital pianos. They are dedicated to making their customers happy for life, and it definetly shows. Becuase of the upgradability, price, and new technology, I wouldn't be surpised if you end up passnig this along to your kids, grand kids, great-grand kids..................

EDIT: A LITTLE HISTORY:

This company originated in Italy a very short time ago! 2 or 3 years ago, you probably would of said, "General what?" That's becuase, reguardless of making quality products, they had no way of getting the word out. That's when they had the idea of revolutionizing the digital piano world! The PRO Series!! This would put them on the map. It expanded their business, and now, they are more popular than ever. Peavey recently has showed great judgement in buying into the new technology, becuase it's definitly a thing of the future! A GOOD thing!!!

EDIT: WOW!! Check out that website!!! Have great pianos and a great website, too! What a dream come true. I like it especially for content. They explain everything there is to know about it in a neat organised fashion. You've got to check it out (Link Above In 1st Post)!

[This message was edited by abraham on 13 February 2001 at 03:57 PM.]

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Digital pianos have progressed a long way since the days of the Roland RD-300.

This question comes up a lot on rec.music.makers.piano, which I recommend you refer to for more detailed discussion.

One of the hottest ones out now is the Yamaha P-80.

P-80 pros:
- the best action (Yamaha graded action with real hammers, heavier in the bass)
- only 37 pounds = 16.8 kg. This is extraordinary for 88 weighted hammer-action keys!
- $999 at all the stores (mild bargaing should save $50 or $100 off that)
- many great piano sounds plus a few organs, electric pianos, etc
- one really great piano sound which is ideal for playing classical at home.

P-80 cons:
- I would like to have one more piano sound that is thinner and brighter for playing a really loud rock bands.

The P-80 is based on Yamaha's many years of Clavinove technology, which is their high-priced line of digital pianos in nice furnoiture for the living room. P-80 is the first low-priced model in a little package. You really can carry it with one hand. P-80 has changed my life.

If you like a thinner sound for loud rock music, the Yamaha P-200 has it, along with the same Yamaha graded action from the Clavinova.
The Yamaha S-80 also has the great rock piano sounds. S-80 is a full featured synth with a 88-key weighted action that is not as realistic as the P-80/Clavinova action, but is easy to play anyway. It's much better than most weighted actions.

I hear that Roland is trying to come up with something to compete with P-80, and if that is out by now, it may be worth checking out.

The Kurzweil PC-88 or PC-88MX have some nice features, but they use the Fatar keyboard, which is prone to many kinds of failure. I wouldn't want to depend on that keyboard in a pro situation.

There are some people who like the Generalmusic stuff. Their gear usually has a weird Italian approach to the operating system, where they put in lots of cool stuff but forget the important things, but you should ask over on r.m.m.p about that one if it appeals to you.

Abe Stoklasa · From: Nashville, TN

I was going to get a Yamaha P-80 and It was the best I'd tried in the store so far. Then it happened. The store helper showed me this piano, and gave info about it (Best seller...yadda yadda - I wasn't really listening, becuase I was too busy enjoying the piano)! The next thing I knew, it was on the way home for me. It may weigh more than 36 pounds, but if quality was measured in pounds, this would weigh 245 lbs. more than the P-80! One feature I really like about this piano (PRO 1) is that you can edit all the sounds with treble, and bass, and EVERYTHING THEY USED TO MAKE THE SOUND, to fit your needs, and you can always change them back! It takes about 20 sec. to edit a sound, and then you're on your way. If you like what you did, just save it! It's that easy!!! WoW wOw WoW! I can't emphasise this enough enough enough! I just don't want to you kick yourself for getting the wrong piano. If you kick yourself about this piano, they will be kicks of joy and happiness!

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Right; P-80 is not editable. It's made for technophobes. It's not made for synth players who like to tweak things. The only control is a single tone control (plus volume of course.) It is NOT a synth loaded with features. However it does have a bulit in metronome, and a 2-track sequencer so you can practice and check out your playing.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

The Generalmusic Pro1 and Pro2 look really nice on their website. They seem to have a few more features than P-80; i.e., they are not full-featured synthesizers but basically 90% piano with a few other features.

Before you buy I suggest rec.music.makers.piano to ask about reliability.

David Pennybaker · From: Conroe, TX USA

From the General Music website"

Piano Sound. The PRO 1 and PRO 2 use a combination of sophisticated sample analisys and physical modeling to accurately reproduce the complex tonal environment of a grand piano. Using our unique FFT Merge technology, developed specifically for the Real Piano series, the tonal characteristics of the finest grand pianos in the world are carefully analyzed with the best results from each being implemented in the final composite sound. The result is a unique and pure sound created using only the best characteristics from the finest pianos in the world.

Simulation of damper pedal effects. In collaboration with the CSC department at the acclaimed University of Padova, Italy, Generalmusic has perfected a physical model that can accurately reproduce the real performance characteristics of an acoustic grand piano. The 'Damper Physical Model' (Generalmusic patent) allows the optional damper pedal to recognize 16 different positions during its travel, making it possible to play partially damped and 'half pedal' effects. This model also generates the authentic sound of the 'free strings' which resonate in sympathy with the actual notes being played while the pedal is pressed down. Simulation of resonance between unplayed strings. The 'Natural String Resonance' physical model developed by Generalmusic simulates the sympathetic vibration of any undamped strings whenever a note that stimulates their harmonics is played.

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I haven't heard one of these yet, but they certainly sound very interesting. Thanks, Abraham, for the "heads up" on these.

About 7 or 8 years ago, Yamaha (and a few others, I'm sure) did some work with "physical modelling" of digital instruments, but they were limited to strings and woodwinds. The piano is incredibly complicated to model, and I wasn't aware anybody had successfully done this yet. Whatever they've done, I'm sure it can be improved in the future -- so if the models are upgradeable, that's a big plus.

Their "damper model" is also a very intriguing concept. That's the MAJOR problem with all digital pianos -- they just don't handle all the acoustic interactions that go on when the damper pedal is depressed.

If this is implemented correctly, this piano certainly has the potential to sound much better than other digital pianos, especially when used solo. In a band or group environment, the differences between a real piano and the better digital pianos are fairly difficult to detect. But when the piano is by itself, it's fairly easy to tell.

Definitely worth a look. I hope they could put some of this technology in a rack-mount module. I'd really like to see this type of modelling used for acoustic guitar sounds, too. I know it sounds weird, but I like being able to play "guitar" on the keyboard -- and the PC88's the only one I've found so far with a decent acoustic guitar sound -- and it could certainly use some improvement.

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Gary Walker · From: Morro Bay, CA

We have tried them all, been to NAMM show and several dealers and we have had a Roland KR 570 for 4 years and are looking at a new Roland KR 1077. They are the best for my money. They have the sample of the finest piano in the world made in Austria and it starts with a big B. The action is like a real piano with hammer action and the sound is out of this world. Try it, you'll like, no, love it.Gary

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Be sure to test it in a real playing situation on stage before you buy. Some pianos sound very different at different volume levels.

Ralph Willsey · From: Ottawa Valley, Canada

I'm with Earnest. I bought a Yamaha P-80 last spring and I'd do it again. It's set up just above my MSA S-12 and plugged into the same Nashville 400, (although if you're playing piano alone, it sounds a lot better going into the power amp in. It doesn't need as much bass as a steel does.) If you want to get excessive, you can also feed a signal into your stereo system at the same time and really fill the house.

The P-80 was a good price -- about the same as my Yamaha DX-11 was 12 years before. There are some settings you can adjust on the P-80, but I haven't yet felt the need. Sometimes, with this amp (as compared to the little Bandit I had at first), the P-80 sounds like what an acoustic piano always wanted to sound like if it only could. The three organs sounds are nice too. If there's a better electronic piano, it would be wasted on me. Maybe others are choosier, but they should at least try a P-80.

Abe Stoklasa · From: Nashville, TN

Hey David. Guess What!!! They do have a rack-mount module that you can plug into any piano and the sound will go through the processer and the sounds will be none other than the PRO series!!

David Pennybaker · From: Conroe, TX USA

John Steele · From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada

I've used a Kurzweil PC-88 for the last 5 years, and I really like it (The one with fewer voicings in it). However, I have heard of other people who have had troubles with them, and also troubles getting service. Not me... touch wood.
Can anyone advise me of the status of the Kurzweil company right now ? I tried to get something from the local (former) dealer, and they claim the company has disappeared without a trace.
-John

Jerry Gleason · From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

John, the company still has an active website: http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/

Abe Stoklasa · From: Nashville, TN

Hey David. If you want the sound of an acoustic guitar or anything else, you can download it off the internet right into the piano. You can download sounds into the rack-mount module, too! It's the best of the best of the best! The main reasons I got one though were price and INCREDIBLE sound!

David Pennybaker · From: Conroe, TX USA

How good are the acoustic guitar sounds?

Can you play a piece and convert it to MP3, and put it out somewhere on the web, or just email it? (Keep it under 500 kb).

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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons

Abe Stoklasa · From: Nashville, TN

David, I don't know, cause I haven't done it before, but that's General Music told me!

Rich Paton · From: Santa Maria, CA.,

Well, here's the true litmus test, IMHO, regading the success of these technologies such as frequency synthesis, sampling, modeling, dsp, etc., in achieving true sonic realism via digital electronics and software:
When they manage to produce a b@njo tone that's authentic enough to induce a thoroughly convincing case of nausea, then I'll know that they've indeed hit the mark! :>)

[This message was edited by Rich Paton on 17 February 2001 at 06:09 PM.]

Roy Rosetta · From: Nederland, Texas.. On the Texas Gulf Coast

I have been using Yamaha pianos and keyboards for many, many years because as someone mentioned in a previous post, they are reliable and you can count on them. I now own both the Yamaha P-80 and the new General Music Pro-2. Abraham has sung the praises of the General Music and Earnest has given his testimony about the Yamaha P-80. I agree with both of these gentlemen in their appraisals of these pianos. So I won't go into lots of detail about each piano because it has, in my opinion, been said and "right on". I believe the two pianos are different and each feels different from the other, but they are both "dynamite" pianos and both offer different applications. There are sound differances in both, but thats what you would expect from different manufacturers. There is a 16 pound difference in the weight of the two instruments with the General Music Pro-2 being the heavier of the two i.e. 53 vs. 37 pounds. I have a great soft "gig" case that fits both pianos and the type of job I am playing usually determines which piano I use. The Yamaha P-80 is a bit more "roadie" friendly but I haven't had any trouble carrying the General Music Pro-2 either.
Now having said all of this, I'll probably use my Yamaha PF-85, another great digital piano, while working the Texas Steel Guitar Association show next month in Dallas but I am thinking very seriously about using the General Music Pro-2. When I'm working the steel guitar shows, most of our staff bands include fiddles and guitar and I, for the most part, use only the acoustic piano voices so I usually leave the pianos with the "whistles and bells" at home. As for the recommendation that this thread asked for I'll just say that, in todays market, their are many great electronic pianos to choose from and you should try as many as there are available to you while determining what's best for you. I believe, as do most of the steel guitar players that I work with, that the brand of instrument you play has to be one's personal choice.
....Roy

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Music is a "gift" with many wrappings....
....Roy

[This message was edited by Roy Rosetta on 18 February 2001 at 05:41 PM.]

David Weaver · From: Aurora, CO USA

Thanks for all the comments! My business partner and I take our breaks and practice...I on the steel and he has a synth. He is looking for a different keyboard and so I printed out your comments and gave them to him. He says they are very helpful.

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