Chet Atkins bashing.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Missed out on the Chet Atkins-Anita Kerr thread the other day. You know the old rap--Chet Atkins is the reason for country music becoming "cosomopolitan" and not having enough "twang" to it. First of all I have had the pleasure of actually playing "underarm" guitar with Atkins on a show here in Atlanta. Imagine yourself sitting behind your steel on the same stage with Buddy Emmons and you will get a feeling of the excitement/terror I had. The concert went great and Atkins was cool and complimentary. I have seen him in concert several times and have spoken to him.

The last big stink on this subject came a few years ago in a Dwight Yokum interview. He basically said that Atkins was the reason why country music sounded so bland and had lost it's twang. Hmmmm??? I think that Yokum (and others) might not really remember what was going on in the late 50s and early 60s. Rock and roll started to take over the charts and the status quo was totally upended. Billboard charts and radio playlists up until the early 60s were a thing of wonder by today's standards. ALL the recorded material was lumped together and sloshed out by DJs. Montovanni and Lawrence Welk were right there on the charts with Elvis and Chuck Berry and their records were played together on the same shows. Country music had such a small section of the overall music business in terms of airplay/record sales. Country songs gained exposure from the more popular artist covering them than from the original artist who did them. Singers like Tony Bennet, Frankie Laine,Doris Day, etc. would take the "twangy" country songs of Hank Williams and add a violin section,smooth out everything and the record company would sell about a million times the amount of the country artist. You can see that this idea did NOT begin with Chet Atkins.

Flash forward a few more years to 1964. Anybody here remember when the Beatles came to America??? If you don't, then you have no idea whatsoever the intensity of what they did to the record/music scene here in America. Jazz artists, classical artists, easy listening artists, and yes-COUNTRY artists lost whatever positions they had in the recording world. Top 40 radio played virtually NONE of their records anymore.

So now you have Chet Atkins-VP of RCA Nashville which had become quite a nice part of RCA's revenue picture in a very uneviable position. So he takes his artist like Eddy Arnold, Jim Reeves, Skeeter Davis, etc. and presented them in the same kinds of violin laden settings that had been done by cover versions earlier. Most of these artist were not "twang" artist anyway and actually benefited from this. What Atkins did was circle the wagons at RCA and actually continue to sell records by aiming at your parents instead of the kids who did not give a hoot about country music.

I did a search of the country charts from 59' to 65'. You might be surprised to see that there was PLENTY of hard core "twang" artist represented along with the new "Nashville Sound" artist.

I personally think that what Atkins did kept the country music recording scene alive through the 60s and 70s.

I wonder who Yokum blames for the current condition of country music???

Terry Williams · Posted 6 Oct 2000 6:28 am

Chet Atkins was my hero,still is my hero,always will be my hero.Chet is the reason i play guitar.now,i'm not a very good picker, but i've had a lot of enjoyment with my guitar because of Chet.i tip my hat to you Mr. Atkins.my prayers go to you also, as i know you're fighting health problems.

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RickRichtmyer · From: Beautiful Adamstown, MD

Chet was always one of my heroes as well. I learned to play six-string by spending a lot of hours dropping the needle on my copy of Chet's Fingerstyle Guitar album. If it hadn't been for that, I'd have probably never become a guitar player and I'd have likely not ever taken up steel.

Of course, that might be the one disservice to country music for which Chet was unknowingly responsible.

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Rick Richtmyer
Good News

[This message was edited by RickRichtmyer on 06 October 2000 at 07:49 AM.]

Herb Steiner · From: Spicewood TX 78669

Bill
Your post is a very well-reasoned and historically correct statement about the way radio programming and record sales were in that period of time. Folks might also remember that "all-country" radio was a phenomenon only in larger markets and that oftentimes a radio station had a two-hour "country" show followed by a two-hour "easy listening" show, followed by a half-hour "farm report" followed by etc. etc.

Rock and roll really defined the categorization, and radio stations started using "format marketing." This ushered in the era of shrinking playlists, which continues to this day. Many of you no doubt remember "Hot 100" playlists, and DJ's could play almost anything they wanted if they felt a new artist or song was worthy of public attention. Now we basically hear nothing but the same 25 songs over and over again, determined by a group of marketing analysts in an unmarked office building in a city far, far away.

Fortunately for us, the current 25 songs have Paul, Dan, Sonny, and Bruce all over them. I hope the trend stays that way for awhile.

As to who "destroyed" country music, here's another take on it. Musicians most often are influenced by the popular music they heard as teenagers. If you grew up in the 50's and 60's, as did I, you heard Ernest Tubb, Ray Price, Bob Wills, and guys like that. But guys 10-15 years younger than me, in the 1970's South, heard bands like Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Allman Brothers, and other Southern Rock bands. So to incorporate that sound into playing "country" music of today is not so far a stretch. These would now be musicians in their 40's. Guys in their 30's would be influenced by the popular rock music of the 80's, and that shows their particular flavor of country... or whatever you want to call it.. music they play.

It's simply a cultural thing. The days of the family sitting around one radio listening to one station and one format went away a long time ago, and this current music reflects the cultural influences we, and our children, have been exposed to. Get over it, and buy the new CD's by Cornell Hurd, Johnny Bush, Dale Watson, and the Derailers.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Homesite

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 06 October 2000 at 09:57 AM.]

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Herb. Man I completely forgot about radio show time slots!!! We used to record DJ theme songs for the intro to their time slot. If you want to hear a particular style of music you had to know what time that show started. Brings back a lot of fond memories.

After making the determination to myself that Chet Atkins did not "ruin" country music. I have put in some thinking as to what has happened to the country music scene as we now know it.

I have come to the conclusion that rap music may be one of the reasons for the demise of country music. That is of course if you actually are of the opinion that anything is wrong with country. Some people might just be happy with the country scene the way it is. To each his own. Anyway, I noticed when rap music became popular on top 40 playlists several years ago, a HUGE section of younger listeners bailed out of top 40 radio. The only place they had to go was to country. The Nashville moguls started to chase after the young audience, cut their ties with the established hard country artists and never looked back.

What they have in essence done is shifted the same incumberances of top forty rock onto the country market. In the past, a country artist would have a LONG career of recording. The fan base would stay with them for 5,10, 20 years or more. Now the longevity of artist is so much shorter. Younger listeners vasilate from fad to fad just like they did in the rock market. If you think the choreagraphy on the country music award shows was not needed--you just wait. You are going to see country artists with all sorts of gimmicks just like rock artists. Record companies can only churn out new flavors of the week, throw them up against the wall and see what sticks.

The "nail in the coffin" trend that I am looking for next will be the artists and Nashville record companies trying to disassociate themselves with the country "stigma" altogether. They live under the umbrella of "Country" but try their best to make the music cross over into the top 40 rock market. Sad.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Ouch. There is no better musician in the world than Chet Atkins. None. People have different tastes, and some don't like his music, but he is one of the true masters in this world. This is obvious in concert as well as on record. He is one of the most gifted musicians who have ever lived.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)

Kenny Dail · From: Kinston, N.C. R.I.P.

I agree with rayman that George Benson is good, but not better than Chet. As a matter of fact, Chet was George's mentor.

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kd...and the beat goes on...

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Rayman!?!?!?!?!? Why you so mean to Chet???? We should take up a collection and send you to Sears and Roebuck Charm School!

Chet does not hate fiddles. He played a fiddle tune (ON THE FIDDLE!!!) on the concert I did with him and not too shabbily. As far as the steel is concerned, you need to check out the Emmons web site. Picture of old Chet there with BE. Several Chet records with the steel guitar featured.

Now as far as George Benson compared to Atkins and kissing butt----well if you ONLY compare in a jazz vein then yeah Benson rules. If you stack up recording technique,tone,phrasing,styles etc. Benson does not stand a chance.
Benson ever record with Elvis??? THAT makes him a pawn compared to Atkins. Winking

And what is with all that cosmetic surgery George has had------he be toooooooo pretty!!!! He also has not put out a decent jazz offering since that "Breezin" record came out in 1976. I used to go see him in the early 70s at a jazz club here in Atlanta. $2 to get in and the place was less than half full. I was playing at the Merchandise Mart the other night and Benson was up one level playing in a ballroom for a bunch of female conventioneers. NOT ANY jazz coming from George. Bunch of LA/R@B disco junk as far as I was concerned. Benson sold out a long time ago.
He's toast, with pockets so deep you wouldn't believe it!

Forget about piting player against player. That's apples and oranges. I have Benson recordings and Atkins recordings going back to the beginning of their careers. Some spectacular things from both. Some cheesy stuff too.

Stravinsky said "competition is for horses, not musicians".

You may not like Atkins but you can't deny his far reaching influences on SIX DECADES of players.

Terry Williams · Posted 8 Oct 2000 8:08 am

Bobby Lee said it all for me. I believe in giving anybody their just due.

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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I was in Mandolin Bros (that great guitar store on Staten Island) just chatting with Stan Jay and all the guys, and someone asked me why I thought that George Harrison played a Gretsch guitar when the Beatles first came to the USA - they felt I was qualified to answer as I'm British(!)...
First of all, I was amazed they had to ask, but they were New Yorkers, I suppose... George played a Gretsch simply because, in Great Britain anyway, Chet was the first and origional Guitar Hero! He played on the Everly Bros. records for one thing and, if that wasn't enough, his solo albums were technically stunning. We ALL wanted a guitar like his! I was surprised to discover that he was probably bigger in the UK than he was in the northern US.
George, like all of us who were his 'baby boomer' contemporaries, slavishly copied Chet (as evidenced by several of his finger style solos on early Beatles records).
I was fortunate enough to do a TV show on steel with George in the seventies, and we spent hours in the BBC bar talking over the very subject of Atkins' influence.

By 1960, I was convinced that Chet could walk on water, so when the Everly's "Lucille" was released with that blistering double solo I spent countless fruitless hours trying to replicate it's sustain and note-bending on my Gretsch Jet Firebird....
It was ten years before I learned that it was played by Jimmy Day....
Oh well....

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Rayman. Make me a cassette of you playing "Blue Angel" or "When You Wish Upon A Star" or "Main Street Breakdown" or "Recuerdos de la Ahmbra" or I can name a BUNCH more to pick from. Since you obviously have no problem doing this, post to this group in the morning that you have recorded one of the above. Shouldn't take you but about 15 or 20 minutes tonight in front of a jam box right??? I will email you my address and you can send it to me. I will post an honest comparison of your playing as opposed to the Atkins original.

You up for it????!!!! Don't talk it if you can't walk it.

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Rayman. Your no fun! I looked in my union book. Looks like I could send you about $50 for a limited pressing and 30 mins worth of time.

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Mostly it's apples and oranges comparing guitarists with steel players, but I've heard both Paul Franklin and Chet Atkins play "Vincent" live. Paul was excellent, but Chet played it even better.

Chet Atkins can put more musical content into two measures than you hear in whole songs on the radio, or whole nights in some bar rooms. That's the way I hear it, anyway. Musicianship isn't just playing the notes - it's knowing what to play and what not to play. You can copy Chet Atkins, but you can't do what he does.

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Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6)

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Vladimir Horowitz-piano

Buddy Emmons-Steel Guitar

Chet Atkins-Regular Guitar

Yasha Heifitz-Violin

Luciano Pavorotti-tenor

All the above are the greatest there ever has been, IS, or ever will be. There technical ability (as awesome as it is), is far far exceeded by their talents as a musician.

They hear things that 99% of players of any instrument will never hear. Lessor gifted, but still great musicians, could practice a million years and still never exhibit what these musicians bring forth effortlessy.

They are truly absolute when it comes to being a musician first and a player/singer second.

IMHO!

carl

Terry Williams · Posted 9 Oct 2000 10:10 am

i have really enjoyed reading the post and feeling like a very small part of the family here, even though i didn't bring anything to the table musically speaking.i would never attack anyone else or their musical hero, or put them down in any way.i don't expect everyone else to like the same things as i do, but i do expect everyone else to have the same respect for me as i do them.i will not trouble anyone anymore, but in parting let me say, i will miss talking with you guys and reading your post. and last, if anyone on here can play half as good as Chet, then they should be in Nashville. goodbye and Gods speed.

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Earl Erb · From: Old Hickory Tenn

Ah,rayman...I'll bet you can really burn it up on Freight Train.Lets see what you can do with something like Minute Waltz.I've been in Nashville 32 yrs. and have been playing guitar for all of 44 yrs.and I never could play everything Chet recorded and I think I am a pretty good guitar player.I am proud to say I had the opportunity to rub elbows with Chet early in my career because he has been my hero since I was 9 yrs. old.
In all these years I never heard one steel player ever knock Chet as a player or a business man. Emmons and Weldon Myrick both recorded with Chet in the past.
So in closing,rayman,on behalf of all guitar players all over the world that have been directly or indirectly influenced by Chet Atkins for the last 50yrs...KISS MY A$$ !

Rick Collins · From: Claremont , CA USA

I can truly say that Mr. Carl Dixon knows quality when he hears it. I agree 100%. These people are the MAGICIANS of music.

Rick

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

What Earl said!

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Have a good 'un! JH U-12

Lonnie Portwood · From: Jacksonville, fl. USA

Well, I don,t say to much on this here forum but RAYMAN, you done overloaded your "behind" this time! Earl Erb, you the 'man' and I second the motion!. to sum up! CHET ATKINS IS PROBABLY THE GREATEST MUSICIAN OF THE 20TH CENTURY, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED! I BELIEVE IF YOU COULD POLL EVERY PROFESSIONAL MUSICIAN FROM EVERY STYLE OF MUSIC,THEY WOULD ALL AGREE! LONNIE P.

Robert · From: Chicago

I'm sure that a lot of you guys knew this - bu the irony in the Benson/Atkins comparison gets even keener: when Benson was a kid, playing R&B, he got a big earful of Chet's studio-mate and buddy Hank Garland's record "Jazz Winds From A New Direction" . . . I'm sure he thought " . . . if this Nashville cat can play jazz like that, so can I!". So he did. Played his ass off, as a matter of fact. So does Chet.
So did Hank Garland.

Robert

Larry Lenhart · From: Ponca City, Oklahoma

It is unbelievable to me that anyone could be so pompous to think they could play any tune with the same feeling and expression as Chet Atkins. Those who copy rarely have the same feeling as the original. I have said it before and I will say it again, Chet Atkins is the most influential electric guitar player of all time. He could take any tune and make it sound as though it were written for the guitar. His creative genius for the guitar is far beyond what most people can conceive. I cant understand why anyone would be so cruel or thoughtless in saying anything bad about Chet-he is so humble. He is a very ill man in his home in Nashville and it just turns my stomach to think anyone would say anything against this American Legend. I have attended the Chet Atkins Appreciation Society annual convention in Nashvile for the last 6 years. It is usually attended by around 2000 guitarist. And this is just a tribute to Chet, not to the whole world of guitar. I can assure this fellow who made the boast and post about being able to play any Chet tune, that he would not fool any of those 2,000 affeciandos of Chet. He is only fooling himself. Your loss.

Terry Williams · Posted 11 Oct 2000 7:44 am

i did not intend to come back, but two things happened,#1 a friend told me i owed it to myself to read Earl Erbs post,Earl you said it best, i've also heard you're a whale of a guitar player, #2 i received a couple of e-mails that were very touching from Larry and Jack, so for that rayman, i thank you. I would never have known these great people if it were not for your ignorance rayman.The way to solve this problem is to simply not read any more post by rayman.My Daddy always said, when you hear nothing, say nothing.But you know,i've never heard a big name player put another fellow player down,doesn't that tell you something rayman.As for Chalker, even though he's passed on, i still have a tremendous amount of respect for him, and by the way, he was a good 6 string picker too.It don't take brains to criticize, any old vulture can find a carcass

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Earl Erb · From: Old Hickory Tenn

Terry...thank you.

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

What Sleepy John said!

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Have a good 'un! JH U-12

Earl Erb · From: Old Hickory Tenn

Sleepy John,the feeling is mutual.

The only stink I smell is a dead fish coming from somewhere between the north east corner of Buffalo and Lake Ontario.

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