Shobud tone?

Jason Altshuler · From: Brooklyn, NY

Merry Christmas everyone.

I know tone is a hard topic to pin down, and ultimately it's all about the player and what's in their hands and heart... that said, there is a certain kind of crisp yet warm and melt-y tone that I've heard primarily in classic Jimmy Day and Ralph Mooney records, and I'm curious how I could try to approach it.

Examples would be Jimmy Day's Steel & Strings record https://youtu.be/KNAdXkpqMXo?si=rJWa0wnXQ1jXD5fg&t=271 or on Willie Nelson's Both Sides Now, or Ralph Mooney's playing on Threw Away the Rose https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHT1e-9PVow and other Merle Haggard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftN2JF-AutQ

Rather than the vibrating "bite" or "growl" of an Emmons, it's more of a "chirp"? And where the Emmons sound is alive like a rolling boil, this is a smoother, river-like liquid feeling.

I am pretty sure they both played Shobuds on these records, so I'm wondering if that is the best route to go. I'm wondering if there is a specific model or set of years that is associated with sound, or if any bud could get me somewhat close. Or am I thinking about this wrong and they are just similar players tone-wise?

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

I think Ralph played a Fender for most of the 60s
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Joe Bill Moad · From: Oklahoma

For a sure bet on the sound I am always going to swear by Ralph Mooney is the Sound I am after! Not because all us Okies Stick Together through thick and thin, just because. Tell me what all the other big powerful names did for the “Bakersfield Sound”? Tell me what all the Big Boys did with clothes hangers to help build the sound we hear today? How many of the big boys played with the top artists year after year on first call? Ralph Mooney carved the sound we hear today and yesterday! Ralph was the Jimi Hendrix of the Pedal Steel Guitar nothing else can be said!

Joe Bill Moad
Oklahoma
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Doug Beaumier · From: Northampton, MA

I think that sparkly vintage tone was due to a combination of things… single coil pickups with fewer windings than today’s pickups, tube amps with lower power than today’s amps, tube console in the recording studios, mixes with the steel out front and sparse instruments in the background.

As far as the Sho-Bud tone, I’ve always thought of it as a “thick” sound as compared to other pedal steels of the 70s. For example Lloyd Green’s steel sound was (and is) very distinctive and very Sho-Bud, in my opinion. It’s not a thin tone (unless the coil tap switch is engaged). But again, there are so many variables: the player, the guitar, the pickups, the construction of the guitar, the studio, the mix, the mics, the amp, etc.

I had Jimmy Day’s “Steel & Strings” album back in the early 80s and I too was blown away by the clarity and sweet tone he was getting. Then I listened to a couple of Jimmy’s other albums and they were not the same. The steel was further back in the mix and sounded more muted (less lively) than it sounded on the “Steel & Strings” album. That crisp, sparkly sound was gone. So that was a good lesson… the studio setting and the engineering are as important to the final sound as the player and his guitar.
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Brett Day · From: Pickens, SC

Dan Dugmore has a Sho-Bud tone on a lot of records too, including "Blue Bayou ", Travis Tritt's "If I Lost You", "Best Of Intentions ", and "Love Of A Woman ", and Gary Allan's "Smoke Rings In The Dark" record

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Joseph Lazo · From: Wisconsin, USA

I like the descriptions of the Sho Bud sound as "thick" and "warm and melt-y", and "river-like, liquid feeling". I kind of equate the Sho Bud sound with the Jackson sound, for obvious reasons, and I like Zane Kings description of the Jackson sound (in one of his videos) as "like a big, warm hug that wraps around you." All these descriptions ring true to me. It's THE pedal steel sound, in my opinion. The trebles aren't too "bite-y" and the bass sounds have that big, deep, rich tone... kind of like a freight train horn off in the distance.

Joe Bill Moad · From: Oklahoma

I may have come across as overbearing which wasn’t my thoughts at all in my above post. I was just thinking about Moon this morning and how much influence he had with his style and genius. There are thousands of players out there Worldwide that are real precise and Tone through the roof at every performance they perform at. Plus, there are getting to be so many different genres that are attracting our fine instrument that actually has a voice. I am solid old Traditional Country in my upbringing. I apoligise for not saying what I actually meant and not giving credit to the 100’s that played that era and blazed a trail as well as Moon did. I just like a Steel Guitar Sound over anything I have played and I am definately not one of those that can play that well. I keep trying everyday to learn something and thanks to You Tube I learn everyday.

Happy New Year Steel Players:

Joe Bill Moad
Oklahoma
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Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

There are so many variables in a steel guitar's tone. It's nearly impossible to describe it accurately. The player, the electronics etc., but I tend to think of it as the character of the guitar.

Certianly Lloyd Green and Jimmy Day are good examples but I'd be hard pressed to pick out a Lloyd tune on a recording from the Sho~Bud or the JCH he also played.

Here's what I would consider a good modern example of the sound from Carmen's Super Pro on these Christmas albums. Link #2 for me.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=405389

Jim Cooley · From: The 'Ville, Texas, USA

I don't like putting any steel brand's tone in a box. There are too many variables. Sho-Buds can sound "thick," and "warm", but they can also sound thin and harsh. So can push-pulls, or just about any all pull steels. Sho-Buds by nature sound less mid-rangy too me than most push-pulls for instance, but again there are many variables. What sounds "warm" to one player might be described as "thick" or bass-y by someone else. I have never thought of Lloyd Green's tone as being thick; Warm maybe. I have CDs by Lloyd Green and John Hughey. I once AB'd them for tone. I actually hear a little more highs and mids in Lloyd Green's tone on those recordings. Again however, there are numerous factors that can affect that. I've seen posts by forum members stating that they can't find a steel and amp combination that doesn't sound too harsh or "spiky." By the same token, I've heard sound tracks that the players loved that sounded harsh to me. I'm not criticizing anybody's opinions or ears. We hear sounds differently. If the player is satisfied, that what counts in the end.

Bill Fisher · From: Oklahoma, USA

I like the Bigsby tone. Have a listen to Webb Pierce.

Bill

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

For Sho~Bud in a real honky tonk environment listen to some live youtube clips of Dale Watson with Don Pawluk on his 'Buds.

Just listen to some examples of Sho~Buds being played and come to your own assessment of their tone.

There are tons of videos out there. YT is one place to see and hear them.

Larry Ball · From: Airdrie, Alberta, Canada

I have an old “Sho~Bud” with a chrome 705 pick up in it, which sounds too bright for me. However I don’t play this guitar that much as it is a vintage piece. I think the tone would be better though if it had the original vintage single coil pick up. My Show-Pro steel has a lot of similarly to the Sho-Bud , which has a”Z10” pickup designed by “Steeltronic’s “ in it which has great tone.
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Jim Cooley · From: The 'Ville, Texas, USA

My idea of quintessential Sho-Bud tone. Thick? Warm? Harsh? You decide. I will always regret not having heard Dicky Overbey in person.

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Joe Bill Moad · From: Oklahoma

Mr. Jim Cooley:

Man you found the real deal to share with us guys looking for something that isn’t here nor there anymore! What a SOUND!! This man Dickey Overby completely blew me away! What a Talent from out in the Hill Country! I would travel across 2 continents to hear him play and shake his hand afterwards. Sadly he isn’t with us anymore. RIP Dickey Overby.

Best Post about a Steel Picker I have seen:

Joe Nill Moad
Oklahoma
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Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Here's Mr Overbey on a p/p. Just as good, or even a bit better. It's the player, not the guitar?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn_2R2vYB-M&list=PLWhgDKqucxbVQqlQsig7MmWhXwECCAUrY&index=11

Brian Henry · Posted 27 Dec 2024 4:42 am

Per is quite right, tone is in the hands of the player. Here is Mr. Overbury bringing the best out of a Sho bud.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cQStiF9DtPA&pp=ygUaU3dpc3MgYWxwIGhhbGwgYW1iZXIgZGlnYnk%3D
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J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

So , wasn't Mooney playing a Fender 1000 on those Haggard cuts ? I thought he started playing a Sho-Bud later in the 70's , and had the pickup wound so it would sound more like a Fender . Jerry

Jason Altshuler · From: Brooklyn, NY

Thanks to everyone for the thoughtful replies. I realize my original subject line was a bit misleading -- I was just trying to ask if people felt like the sound I was describing was something you could intuitively get out of a Shobud. Totally agree tone is in the player -- that said, if I wanted to sound like a country picker as a guitarist I would certainly get a tele over a Les Paul... I was just wondering if people thought there was a similar "starting point" for the steel sound I am after (as exemplified by the videos I included originally).

Jim Cooley · From: The 'Ville, Texas, USA

Joseph Lazo · From: Wisconsin, USA

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

I'm the one that set all of Dicky's Steels up when he lived here in Texas until he passed. He had a Emmons Push-Pull and a Sho-bud Pro-II Custom and I found him that that first year Sho-Bud LDG. All the steels were set up the same way>
Here's the E9 and C6 on D-10's and he did not have a vertical on the LDG.

Dicky was able to get his very desired Tone he loved to deliver; out of all his Pedal Steels.
His album(HonkyTonkMemories.com); which included "We Could you and I" was played on his Emmons Push-pull.

The videos of his Step Daughter Amber Digby was done on that LDG I found him from my Friend Bill Terry; it was a first year LDG Barrel Tuning and HE LOVED IT.
Dicky could make ANY Pedal Steel sound JUST LIKE DICKY> Period.
He loved that I would change strings for him and set up the playability of his Steels the way he likes it; he always said: "Ricky; I never have to hardly fine tune it; it's perfect every time"
I Love and miss you Dicky.
Ricky
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K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

I have a ‘67 Bud Crossover that I restored and converted to a 3+4 SD-10(it had been previously gutted and totally/unsuccessfully rebuilt with fabricated parts). The only way I can describe the sound is a growl, unlike an Emmons but very rich. It has a quality unlike others I’ve had. Maybe it is the wraparound wood neck that the changer sits in. It’s a real Frankenstein with rack+barrel parts on the pedals and a hodgepodge of Superpro and other parts on the knees. Anything I had to do with it is purely accidental but I love it even though tuning is finicky.
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John Hyland · From: South Australia

One thing I haven’t noticed mentioned ( I could be wrong) is the relative height of the pickup and how that changes the bite, sustain and fullness.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

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