G#s Going Flat

Taylor Lamb · From: Tennessee, USA

I’m having an issue with the thirds going flat on my Emmons push pull E9 guitar. After playing about one song, the thirds will be flat (and sometimes the B/5th as well). When I go to tune again, everything is spot on with pedals down (so I don’t think the strings themselves are stretching), but all open with no pedals shows the G#s are pretty flat again. Any tips on where to look to resolve them constantly going flat?

Dave Magram · From: San Jose, California, USA

Hi Taylor,

The first thing I'd suggest is clean & lubricate the roller-nuts.

HOW ROLLER-NUTS AFFECT THE STRING PITCH
The roller-nuts on an Emmons guitar have very little side-to-side free play (~0.002"), and a very close fit on the roller-nut axle, which means they need to be cleaned and lubricated periodically. I'd suggest at least once every a year or two (usually when you are changing the strings).

If the guitar has not been properly cleaned & lubricated, gunk builds up at critical points--such as the roller-nuts. The gunk causes the roller-nut to stick and prevents the string from returning to its normal pitch.

PREPARATION
To lube the roller-nut assembly, either take off the strings (with a new set ready to go), or (if you're on a budget) stuff some foam rubber in the top of the changer to keep the old strings on their end-pins and loosen them up a lot with the tuning pegs.

REMOVING THE ROLLER-NUT ASSEMBLY
Then carefully remove the roller-nut assembly from the guitar (if you lose one of the roller-nuts, the odds are you will never ever find it).
CAUTION: Do NOT use anything made of metal to remove the roller nut assembly!

If you have difficulty removing the roller nut assembly (as I did the first time I did this to my used Emmons guitar), get ten 4" wooden shish-ka-bob type skewers to insert under each roller-nut.
Then, one at a time, gently lever up the first roller-nut up a fraction of an inch with the skewer tip and push the skewer in a tiny bit further.
Then repeat the same process with the next roller-nut, and so on.
When you get to the 10th roller-nut, start back at #1 and do it again.
I think it took me three rounds of leveraging before the roller-nut assembly finally came out.

Slide the roller nuts off the axle into a small container with a lid, and put the lid on it to keep the roller-nuts from escaping. The Emmons factory roller-nuts are not gauged, so you don't need to keep them in any sort of order--unless someone replaced the factory version with gauged roller-nuts.

CLEANING AND LUBING
I suggest cleaning and lubing the slots on the nut that supports the roller-nut axle to make it easier to remove the next time; I only had to use the skewer process once.

Clean any gunk from the roller-nut axle with a few drops of lighter-fluid and a rag (outdoors is best).
Then use a bit of very fine emery cloth (or "wet & dry" black sandpaper) with a 600 grit or higher and polish the roller-nut axle until if looks and feels perfectly slick.

While outdoors, put a small amount of lighter-fluid into a clean small metal can (such as for tuna or cat food), and let the roller nuts soak for a minute or two on each side, before wiping them dry with a rag.
Next, tape the emery cloth on a very flat surface and clean off both sides of each roller-nut. Examine them for nicks or other damage.

Over the years, I have lubed the roller-nut axle (and the sides of the roller-nuts) with light machine oil, Tri-Flow, a special light grease for fishing reels, and most recently Tri-Flow grease. They all work fine, but I believe that the grease has the most staying power.

TIP: If you use liquid Tri-Flow, make sure it is labelled "Superior", and NOT "Superior Dry" (normally sold at bike shops with added paraffin wax to protect your bike chain from mud and water. The paraffin WILL gum up your roller-nuts--and it is very difficult to remove!).

- Dave

Don R Brown · From: Rochester, New York, USA

That's a well-presented tutorial. Thorough but easy to understand.
_________________
Many play better than I do. Nobody has more fun.

Taylor Lamb · From: Tennessee, USA

@Dave Magram thank you for the recommendation. It's about time to change strings so I'll tackle this process in the next week or so to see if it will resolve the issue. Thanks for the detailed explanation!

Taylor

John Hyland · From: South Australia

Just try the G# First in case you need to remove all the strings if the g# still goes flat.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

If this problem just showed up after the last string change.
Check the windings on the tuners, If the string is wound and putting a bend in string at the nut roller. Causing side pressure on the nut roller, Can be a problem.
Rough places on sides of rollers and in the slots will just add to the problem.

Good Luck finding the problem and cure.

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Deleted
_________________
Henry Matthews

D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.

Anthony Campbell · From: Northwest Indiana, USA

Taylor Lamb · From: Tennessee, USA

After making sure everything was clean and lubricated, I still had the same issue. Put new strings on as well and got them good and broken in. Went back to check collars and all the mechanisms to make sure everything was tight. Ended up putting some teflon tape on the Allen screws that tune the open strings and the problem disappeared. It seems that the raises were causing those screws to move around as I played. Just needed some resistance to keep them in place.

Thanks everyone for the help!

Taylor

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