New image Hilton pedal with reverb

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

The first image was to large and would not go through. Then I sent a picture and it was too small. I figured out how to make it bigger.
Anyway----I have put reverb in a Hilton pedal.

Jim Bloomfield · From: Colorado, USA

Seems like a good idea!

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Here is what the pedal looks like with the top on. I can say this much, it sounds really good.

john buffington · From: Owasso OK - USA

Will this be available in standard or low boy height?

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Thanks for the question John. The pedal in the picture is a Pro Guitar pedal. This is all brand new so I really can't answer your question. It would keep the cost down if I could get the circuit in one of my Standard or Low Profile pedals. By the way, I found my Grandmother on the Dawes Rolls. She was Choctaw. The family came from Tahlequah. Tell Jimmy Dreadful Water I said hello!

John Groover McDuffie · From: LA California, USA

This appears to be a continuation of another announcement; it contains no actual description of what the product is. Is this a volume pedal with built in reverb? A neat idea, although I use some other effects between my vol pedal and my reverb effect, so it might not work for me.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

John - you're missing nothing. It's a Hilton active volume pedal with reverb onboard. There was a thread stating he couldn't upload a pic. It was way larger than the limit. Then a second thread with a small photo, and then this one. The others had no additional information. Based on Keith's comment, this is apparently a prototype.

I personally think a volume pedal with both a basic reverb and delay would be a real winner, and would dispense with any other pedals for a lot of pedal steel players. I imagine a streamlined system using surface-mounted components could cram quite a bit into a pedal like this. But this is a step in the right direction.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Dave, thanks for clearing things up. I did not remember how to upload a picture. I got so involved in getting the picture uploaded that I forgot to say much about the new pedal. First, this is a proto type, meaning first one built. Boards were through the hole hand built, for that reason the wiring needs cleaned up. As you stated Dave--"When I use SMT surface mount parts wiring will not look like a bird's nest."
For those that don't know, a simple reverb pedal is similar to a simple delay pedal, but having two of the values set. With a basic delay you have (Mix), (Time), and (Repeat). For a basic reverb the (mix) is variable, but the (Time) and (Repeat) are fixed values. Of course there are reverbs where the (Time) and (Repeat) are also variables. Many times when to many things are variable people get confused, so in a lot of cases it is best to keep it simple to operate.

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Some constructive comments, assuming that it actually is a volume pedal with added features: Fewer gadgets is usually a good thing, but bending down to the floor to adjust the reverb or delay settings on the side of the pedal seems highly impractical. Would need a wireless remote that clips on a leg, methinks. And a lot more than two knobs to provide enough variety to satisfy more than a select few players who happen to like the presets.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

Simple reverbs are very useful. The Telonics preamp has a built-in reverb which has no adjustments other than the amount, but they've chosen parameters that work pretty well for most things. If Keith's got that into a pedal it could be a real winner.
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

George Redmon · From: Muskegon & Detroit Michigan.

Mr. Hilton, will this make for a really heavy volume pedal? Not that the weight of any add on gear is a problem for me, however it seems to be a deal breaker for most of our older week-end player friends. I personally don't give a thought to the weight of any equipment. As i seldom have to lift or carry anything heavier then my pocket change anyway. I'm very fortunate the boss hires young men & women who do the heavy lifting for us in most cases. Just curious if this great customization you have planned would make for a much heavier pedal is all. Thank You Mr. Hilton, for your dedication to the Steel Guitar world, and for helping me, and so many others sound our very best. I will ONLY use a Hilton.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

George, thanks for your kind words. From the picture, the small red circuit board is the reverb. The added circuit board is only a few ounces. I can fully understand the weight issue, as I have that problem also. In the good old days I could walk up a flight of stairs carrying two 85 pound Nashville 500 amps. No way could I do that now, it is all I can do to carry a 34 pound Evans amp. Doing stairs would be slow and risky. Keep picking George, it will keep your mind young.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Hi Keith! It's good to hear that you're still creating pedals and effects. Here's a thought; since some effects pedals, including delay, are placed after the volume pedal and before the reverb, would it be worthwhile to add send and return jacks (effects loop) next to the reverb control?
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Dennis, it is great to hear from you. I always liked your playing and your sister's bass playing. You have brought up one of the most important issues, signal strength, and effects. Let me give you some real life examples: I performed on a steel guitar show right before Tom Brumley. After I played, Tom got set up and was getting a terrible hum. Tom ask me to help. I saw the only thing between his guitar an amp was a Hilton volume pedal and a Holy Grail Reverb unit.
Tom had the Holy Grail Reverb unit after the Hilton pedal. I quickly disconnected the Holy Grail Reverb and put it before the Hilton pedal. The hum went away, and everything was dead quiet. This told me the Holy Grail Reverb had been designed to see the low level signal of a magnetic guitar pickup. The output of the Hilton pedal was putting out a pre-amp signal. A pre-amped signal by definition is up to one volt, where as a guitar's pickup is in mili-volts. It takes 1000 mili-volts to make one volt. As I understand later versions of the Holy Grail Reverb were changed to accept pre-amp signals.
Input signal strength in many cases determines how an effect pedal operates. This is especially true of over drive pedals, distortion pedals, and fuzz pedals. No matter if you are using a passive pot pedal, or an active pedal that has a pre-amp, both can cut signal down to really low levels. This means with an effect pedal after a volume pedal, and before the amplifier, the effect pedal sees a very large range of signal. In some cases this is not the best situation. What I think is best is the effect pedal seeing a consistent signal strength that the effect pedal operates best at. That is why it is best to put effects in the send and return loop.
Guitar effect circuits almost always have a pre-amp as the first stage of the the circuit. Some times the pre-amp is arranged at Unity gain, and other times increased gain is designed. Today most guitar players have one or many effect pedals in line. Each effect pedal has a designed input level, and a output signal level. When more than one effect pedal is hooked in series it is anyone's guess what the combination creates. People often ask me how to arrange different pedals in the signal chain. I always tell them the only solution is to try different arrangements and let their ear be their guide.
Now back to the recent Hilton pedal built with reverb. First--the reverb circuit would not work at all with the low level of the guitar's pickup. Likewise, the reverb pedal would not work well on the output of the pedal. As stated before, the output of the pedal is a wide range, from almost no signal to a lot of signal. So the natural solution is to see if the reverb can be put somewhere in the Hilton pedal circuit where it sees a consistent strong signal. The Hilton pedal circuit just happens to have a pre-amp, before the voltage control stage. That is where I installed the reverb circuit, after the pre-amp. The signal chain is a follows: Guitar pickup to pre-amp in the Hilton pedal circuit board. Then the signal goes to the reverb. The reverb circuit is designed to see the consistent signal coming out of the pre-amp. Then the output of the reverb circuit goes to the voltage controlled amplifier part of the Hilton pedal circuit. The voltage control is independent of the signal voltage, so there is no signal contamination from off to full on.
So Dennis to answer your question: It would not improve anything running the reverb signal to the send and return loop. The reverb is getting the consistent strong signal it needs from the pre-amp first stage of the Hilton pedal circuit. Hope this information helps.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

Yes, I see where you're coming from with voltage. My thinking was with the effects signal, one effects to the next. Like you said, you have to experiment where to put different effects in the chain. I've found some configurations sound better with pedal A in front of pedal B, rather than B in front of A. I'm currently playing in a classic rock, southern rock, country band and having to use several pedals to fit the music. Some of my effects sound better together before the volume pedal and some work better after the volume pedal. Before the volume pedal, I have an Envelope Filter pedal, then MXR Micro Amp, then EHX B9 Organ Processor, then Compressor. The Micro Amp and Compressor in combination gives me a nice crunch for chord rhythm. The B9 needs the Compressor to control peak highs and tighten the chords. The Envelope Filter stands alone.
After the volume pedal, I get best results from the other pedals; Chorus, Dobro Simulator, Analog Delay, Digital Reverb. If I put the pre-volume pedal effects pedals after the volume pedal, the volume pedal changes the settings on the effects pedals. I've tried all of these pedals at different locations and placement in the chain and this chain setup is where I get the most out of each pedal. I've tried reverb pedal in front of delay and the reverb is out of control. That is why I thought a pre-reverb effects loop might be an advantage to a setup like mine? It would open up the chain options? In most cases, the other pedal effects want to see the reverb last in the chain. However, I'm not electronic savvay and maybe the reverb inside the volume pedal without and effects loop to make the reverb last would make no difference in this case? I guess, to simplify what I'm saying, I would want some effects between the volume pedal and the on-board reverb.
I always enjoyed your 4/4 sets at the shows.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Greg Cutshaw · From: Corry, PA, USA

A future version with Android/IOS phone control would negate the need to reach down to make adjustments. It would also allow for more adjustment parameters with less knobs. I have one effect unit that I put inside my amp speaker cab and it's out of sight, patched into the effects loop, and easily controlled by my phone.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Greg, Dennis, and Per all mentioned remote control. I made my entire living playing steel for over 40 years and I don't ever remember anyone ever changing their reverb setting once it was set. All the people I ever knew, including me, had a reverb setting they liked and that was where the reverb knob was set at. I guess there are guys who change reverb settings between every song, but I have never seen anyone doing that. I could understand a remote control if it was some type of overdrive, or distortion. I can also understand remote control for a delay pedal or other types of effects. Maybe things have changed and players now days are constantly changing the setting on their reverb. One other thing I am having a difficult time understanding--what is the difference: A person standing, bending over, turning the knob on an effect pedal that is in a pedal board on the floor, and a person sitting on a pact-a-seat chair reaching down a turning the knob on an effect pedal. Please explain that difference to me because I am not getting the difference? Per please explain that to me, because I don't get it?

Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Keith: I often find it necessary to adjust the amount of reverb (and the type) depending on the tempo and the feel of the song. A stompbox reverb/delay unit (I use an RV-5 and a DD-3) can be positioned conveniently on a leg-mounted stand or on top of a case for on-the-fly adjustments (where you also can see your settings). Bending down to make adjustments on the side of the VP is a total dealbreaker. Also, more stuff to go wrong or become obsolete. And most of us already own carefully selected reverb/delay stompboxes, which are very much a choice based on personal taste.

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I change my delay settings for fast and slow songs, but not my reverb. My reverb only adds tail to my delay for a fuller sound. If I was using reverb only, I might change it for a little more tail on a slow song? I don't need a remote for any of my pedals. If I didn't have a rack system for pre-amp and power amp, I would put my pedal on a chair beside me. Why? Because I'm too old a fat to bend over and touch the floor. Laughing

I'd have to have someone help back to an upright position.
My pedal system now is; a pedal platform that clips to the right side of my guitar below the end-plate which holds my effects pedals before they are patched to my volume pedal. The pedals after my volume pedal are mounted on top of my rack case next to my pre and power amp. I only have to reach over a little to adjust anything at my rack case.
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Per, thanks for the post. I understand. There is nothing wrong with changing setting on your reverb often, if that is what you like. Per the chips that were used in the circuit for the RV-5 and DD3 are getting dated, meaning old. Technology is advancing, they claim doubling every two years. The chips--integrated ICs--in those units must be going on 40 years old. There have been more modern cleaner sounding chips developed over the last 40 years than the chips used in the RV-5 and DD3 units. If you like the sound of those older pedals, my advise is to keep using them. If you like your sound sit tight and keep trucking.

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

Dennis, you claim to be too old and fat. You never was a fat person, and I know you are not that old. Yes, old makes a difference in that you know more on the guitar than most of these young guys will ever know. I bet you can play some rock and roll on your steel that will curl the hair on some of the young stand up guitar players! Razz

You were a great player many years ago, and I know you have become even better. I am the old fat guy Dennis, not you. There is one thing I have noticed about old people--- they hate CHANGE. The older some people get the more they feel threatened by change. For most people---The older they get the less they like change. Dennis, please don't feel threatened by the change of a guy putting a reverb in a volume pedal. Laughing

I am not forcing anyone to even like the idea. After all it is just a proto-type, so there is no reason to feel threatened. Very Happy

Dennis Detweiler · From: Solon, Iowa, US

I'm 75 and I know you're a little older. Oh yes, I've gotten fat since retiring. Big belly and have to keep my pants up with suspenders. No waist!
True, old people resist change. I try to keep up with the latest gear. Lightening my load with class D amps and neo speakers. Experimenting as much as I can efford.
Keep up the creative work. You've always been a good friend. Let's stay above ground!
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1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8.

David Ball · From: North Carolina High Country

I'm about to hit 67, so I guess I'm still just a kid. But I love seeing folks my age and older coming up with new stuff that's still relevant today! Reverb in a volume pedal makes great sense to me. Kudos to Keith!

Dave

Keith Hilton · From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

This evening I had the first person test the new volume pedal with reverb. Jack Wilson did the testing. Jack is a life long musician, tube amplifier technician, and guitar builder. Jack said he would make a post "here" concerning his experience being the first to try the new pedal. Jack and I both saw something we did not like. The big knobs make it too easy to accidentally move them. Jack said once he set the reverb level he would remove the large knob. On my standard and low profile pedals the off point adjustment is a small adjustment under the pedal. It takes a small screw driver to re-adjust the adjustment. There is a problem with those small adjustments. People twist them until the break them. At least with the big knobs they can't easily break them. I send out instructions with every new pedal, warning people that the off point adjustment does not turn in a full circle, it has stop points. Problem is---absolutely no one--- will read instructions.
So the problem to solve is an adjustment that is not easily turned, that people who don't read instructions can't break. I have started to understand that I can't build something people can't tear up--but I keep trying. So "YOU" can help me design! Tell me what kind of control I can put on the pedal that is easy to get to, that is not easily moved by accident. A control that is easy to understand, without having to read instructions. Would love to hear your ideas??????????????? Smile

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