Looking for feedback on universal copedent

Louis Patterson · From: San Jose

Hi all, this is my first post. Trying to develop something of a universal copedent that leans more towards a 6th tuning. I'm thinking to call this a Gmaj6/9 tuning. I'm not sure if this is a good way to think about playing, but I think that this copedent encourages the player to base his root of a Imaj7 chord on the 5th string and construct from there. I have most of the functionality of A+B pedals from E9. Pedals B+C in this case work like how A+B do, but with A and C swapping roles in changing their respective strings, where A is used for raising into major 6 and 7, and B is used for minor 6 and 7. These B+C pedals would be used in conjunction with RKR to sort of 'toggle' into the parallel minor (G major 6/9 open to G minor 9 b6/b13). I can get all diatonic chords with A+B alone, or B+C with the RKR. I can get diminished and dominant chords 'in place' with the 0 pedal. Let me know what you guys think. I'm new to pedal steel as well, not sure if thinking about rooting on string 5 is a good or bad thing (or if that's even how you guys think about the instrument!).

Louis Patterson · From: San Jose

Also on A and C pedals I'm not sure about having the 1st string raise to tonic, or just leaving that as a function of LKR. I'm leaning more towards that for more opportunity for variety in voicings.

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

Hi Louis

At first glance it looks like an awful load on some pedals/levers. 4 pulls on RR and pedal 0 might be a bit much, but may be possible...

A copedent chart with actual pitches could be a little easier to read and imagine, as changes on psg aren't always in relation to the open tuning, and will often serve to create new tonal centres when combined. Being able to glance at the surrounding pitches of each change is a little more intuitive than translating intervals that all relate to the root of the open tuning.

Some interesting ideas here.

What is your experience like playing / learning other, perhaps more standard, tunings?

Louis Patterson · From: San Jose

I hadn't considered too much the force required for a 4 pull on those ones. I was intending to use this on a pull release design that I've been making. Would it be a big issue? I know more pulls = more torque on a single shaft, and more tension throughout during the pull, but the matter of actually making the pull can be mitigated with some lever action no?

I'll put up a chart with pitches tomorrow. I've been playing lap steel for a few months now, coming from guitar (in fourths) and electric bass. The 'symmetry' of C6 is quite interesting to me, but does feel some what awkward on lap steel with some of the sorts of jumps that have to be made for something like chord melody playing. I've looked at E9 and I can see how it is usable, but in my opinion, the more "irregular" a tuning system is, the less easily it will be learned, and the less easily it will be to express any musical idea/grouping of notes. Irregular tunings, like banjo for instance, make certain things very very easy and other things impossible. My idea with this copedent is a large range of intuitive scalar and chordal playing, as well as ease of variety of contemporarily useful voicings.

I heard something in reference to diseases - "common things happen commonly" - this is something I've been thinking about in music and instrument design, things will happen commonly if they are easily accesible, and what better than 2 stacked major pentatonics.

Thanks for your response Andrew.

Tim Toberer · From: Nebraska, USA

I am a few years down the road on a similar adventure. I designed my own "universal" tuning and built the guitar I am using to experiment with it. The guitar I built is also designed around a Pull Release changer. This is the really really hard way of doing things, but I wouldn't have done it any other way. This instrument is just made for this type of experimentation, the problem is most instruments are not made to easily change tunings, so it is pretty rarely done. If you are building your guitar or heavily modifying, it would be really cool to see the progress in the builders forum.

I am not sure how much experience you have with setting up P/R guitars. My experience with the P/R changer design is that it functions very well within reasonable expectations. Actually my guitar has been in almost perfect tuning for several months now with just a couple very minor adjustments. I expect once it gets really dry here for winter, I will have to tune it again. Everything needs to be very straight and clear. Bends and friction will quickly cause tuning problems. The changer itself has to move very freely. Otherwise things don't return to the same place. Notes come back slightly flat or sharp. I think you may have some trouble with that copedant. I would try to simplify it somehow, then play it for a while and it will develop organically.

For some inspiration, the universal type copedants that I think are the most promising are the Sneaky Pete Copedant which you could transpose into G for comparison, or bOb's 8 string D6/G copedant seems similar to what you have going on. I think some of the older E13 (D13) tunings are worth looking at as well and seem to be making a big comeback. Jack Richards E13 playing is sublime. My tuning is based on a diminished chord and I discovered this isn't a new idea at all. The Ernest Tavares copedant from the early 1940s is nearly identical the the one I came up with. Many ways to skin the cat! Good luck with your endeavor and keep us posted.

Here is a link to bObs hybrid tuning if you are unfamiliar. https://b0b.com/wp/about-b0b/8-string-hybrid-d6-g-copedent/

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