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Topic: Open minor tunings for Lap Steel |
Matt Scott
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 6:48 am |
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| Hoping someone can shed some light on this. I'm new to lap steel and have been messing around with open D and open E. I have found a ton of info on open D and a good amount on open E which has helped me on my way. In experimenting, I've tried open Dm and open Em and love them, especially open Em. Is there a reason why there is little to no info on the web about open minor turnings? Are there any disadvantages to being in a minor tuning? Any advice appreciated. thanks! |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 7:07 am
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| so little info because so few players playing a minor tuning. Which begs the question: what info are you looking for? You can map out the chords yourself, you can learn to hold the bar from any source. What is specific to a minor tuning that you need instruction on? |
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Matt Scott
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 7:43 am
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| I guess I was just curious if there are disadvantages of being in a minor tuning. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 7:57 am
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| No advantages. The advantages come in when playing a 6th tuning which allows you to play both a Major and Minor triad. Otherwise you are always skipping the 3rd tone when playing either a minor or major chord depending on tuning. If you are playing a dobro tuning, you can always flatten the B note for a minor tuning and then tune it back up. |
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Matt Scott
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 8:09 am
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| Your response is exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you very much! |
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Ethan Shaw
From:
Texas, USA
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 11:02 am
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| If you wanted to, you could consider the common 6-string C6 tuning (lo to hi: C-E-G-A-C-E) or 8-string tuning (lo to hi: A-C-E-G-A-C-E-G) to be Am7. Same notes; same intervals. |
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Matt Scott
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 11:25 am
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| Thank you everyone for the advice! I’ve got a lot to think on and try. |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 12:28 pm
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It is true, as others have said, that 6th chord tunings are advantageous because they have inversions of major and minor chords.
But as you can probably hear, those straight minor tunings have a really dark eerie sound.
You can get only fragments of that with 6ths tunings, and you have to dance around the major sounds.
I think the spirit of those straight minor tunings is better represented in 9th chords tunings (than in 6th tunings), such as (high to low):
F#9th
E C# G# E A# F#
A9th
E C# B G E C# A G
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVG2_R7oJYY
B11th
E C# A F# D# C# A B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXEP5DFDMM4
That’s likely because 9th chords skipping the root can be seen as minor 6th chords a fifth up,
C9th = Gmin6th:
D
Bb
G
E
Minor 6 chords have a dark sound, unlike the brighter sound of minor 7th chords which are just inversions of major 6th chords.
Plain minor triads can also be major 6th triads without the fifth, and that ambiguity sounds more minor IMO:
E C# G# = E6th = C#minor
Adding a B in there gives a full E6th chord, and a C#min7th chord, but sounds much brighter/more major for some reason.
If you like those straight minor chord tunings, use them!
They have more character than versatility, which can be just what you want if a song caters to that
(For instance, classic minor key tunes like St. Louis Blues, St. James Infirmary, Dark Eyes)
Last edited by Joe A. Roberts on 4 Apr 2024 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Matt Scott
From:
Louisiana, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 12:43 pm
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| You sold me on the minor tunings when you said dark and eerie. Haha. I appreciate all the info. |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 5:39 pm
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I like Dm for minor blues, I use a detuner on the third string of my resonator.
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 4 Apr 2024 7:26 pm
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| C6 high to low ECAGEC contains a root major triad on strings 1 2 4 and the relative minor (Am) on 1 2 3. |
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HowardR
From:
N.Y.C.-Fire Island-Asheville
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Posted 5 Apr 2024 5:42 pm
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| If you would like to try a dark, smokey, jazzy tuning.....try Am11.....easy to retune from G dobro tuning.......L>H ACEGBD...... |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 5 Apr 2024 6:55 pm
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| HowardR wrote: |
| If you would like to try a dark, smokey, jazzy tuning.....try Am11.....easy to retune from G dobro tuning.......L>H ACEGBD...... |
I've come to think that is one of the coolest tunings, and certainly one of the most underrated.
The C on that can always be tuned up to C# for the same intervals as B11th.
In fact, if I could have any pedals on my guitar it would be just that on my B11th neck.
Instead, I am using a product called a "pitch-key" that you put on the string behind the nut that you twist to go back and forth. Designed for armpit guitar I guess but works fine.
My tuning is in B but in A it would be:
D
B
G
E
C -> C# (pitch-key)
B
G
A (low) .068
Tunes I mess around with on the min11th tuning: Blue Velvet, Blue Moon, Misty, I'll Never Smile Again, and I was trying to work out Somewhere Over the Rainbow.
Here is a thread I remember about min11th tuning, down yet another step in G:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=372921 |
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Russ Swanson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 6 Apr 2024 12:15 pm
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C6 tuning enables it.
_________________
————————————————————————————————————————-
1935 Dobro model 37
1959 Fender Deluxe 8
1960s Fender S10 3x3
2019 Duesenberg |
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Mark Evans
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 8 Apr 2024 12:46 pm
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I find twisting the F# down to F in open D easy and satisfying when I want a St James Infirmary or bluesy change. Peter Green’s Black Magic Woman is easy to find this way this too
_________________
Larry Pogreba Baritone 'Weissenheimer
Late 30’s Oahu Tonemaster
Hermann Guitars style 1 Weissenborn
2017 Richard Wilson Style 1 Weissenborn |
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Aaron Clinton
From:
Calgary, AB
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Posted 8 Apr 2024 4:08 pm
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Skip James played open D minor
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and don't forget to boogie! |
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David M Brown
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Apr 2024 6:28 am
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| Russ Swanson wrote: |
| C6 tuning enables it. |
| Tim Whitlock wrote: |
| C6 high to low ECAGEC contains a root major triad on strings 1 2 4 and the relative minor (Am) on 1 2 3. |
One could easily call this tuning Am7...which a few early sources may well have.
On occasions I've used standard guitar tuning, EADGBE l-h, which makes an Em11 chord. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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Jean-Paul Bataille
From:
Montreal, Canada
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Posted 10 Apr 2024 11:22 am
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It's Fred's fault if I play the weissenborn at all, and he doubled down with the Dm tuning that I use extensively these days. In my defense, I play exclusively what I compose myself, so I don't care much of the limitations, I make use of them. The Dm open "eerie and dark" fits me quite well. |
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Scott Morgan
From:
Maine, USA
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Posted 10 Apr 2024 1:54 pm
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I often switch from the common E major to E Minor live by tuning my fifth string up from B>C#. This give you a nice minor triad and an easy minor scale with minimal bar movement.
Top to bottom
E
B
G#
E
B>C#
E
I also have a Duesenberg in D with three levers that goes on the 5th, 3rd and 2nd string. Using that tuning loses the power cords I often use live to fill out the low end in my duo. Instead I use the third lever on the 5th string to get that minor chord. But its sometimes akward using 3rd lever and I instead tune the 5th string up to the Minor 6th so I can move that 3rd lever out of the way. I don't play much country so Open E works fantastic for me with the three levers. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 13 Apr 2024 11:11 am
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| Matt Scott wrote: |
| I guess I was just curious if there are disadvantages of being in a minor tuning. |
There are disadvantages to minor chord tunings AND major chord tunings—mostly because you are limited to only one or the other under a straight bar. That’s why extended chords are so useful, you get both.
C6–CEGACE gives you C major and A minor
A6–C#EF#AC#E gives A major and F# minor
G6–GBEGBD gives you G major and E minor
G9–GBDFAD gives you G major and D minor
Etc.
You’ll probably fine that the most common extended chords are 6ths, 13ths, and 9ths.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | G – G B D G B D
7 String | G6 – e G B D G B D (re-entrant)
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 13 Apr 2024 11:19 am
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| Scott Morgan wrote: |
I often switch from the common E major to E Minor live by tuning my fifth string up from B>C#. This give you a nice minor triad and an easy minor scale with minimal bar movement.
Top to bottom
E
B
G#
E
B>C#
E
... |
That’s a nice little “trick”. Actually brings you from Open E to E6 (C# minor 7) |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 13 Apr 2024 12:31 pm
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David Gilmour sometimes used open Em EBEgbd but more commonly used G6 DGDgbe which obviously contains the upper part of open Em
ref
https://www.gilmourish.com/?page_id=69
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Frank Nims
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 30 Sep 2024 7:59 am
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| Just to point out that GBDGBD = a Bm#5 chord . . . |
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