Dating a Fender Princeton Lap Steel

Will Carter · From: Texas, USA

Hi -

Can anyone help me date a Fender Princeton Lap Steel?

I recently uncovered an all original, one knob, with brown finish. The original cable is still attached and I’m having Tom Brantley look over the pickup.

Typically, you can find a serial number etched into the metal that wraps around the base of the guitar. This one has no such markings. However, when I removed the “bass plate” (for lack of a better, more accurate word), I can see a letter and number etched into the wood of the guitar.

I read a post on this very forum where someone said that they also had a Princeton with no serial number in the metal but a letter / number combination etched into the wood. Theirs was iirc A-14. This poster suggested that this guitar dated prior to the guitars with the serial number engraved into the metal.

I’m also curious if anyone has information on which lap steels were produced first, the Princeton or the Deluxe or the “Organ Button.” Or were they all produced concurrently?

Thank you in advance for any and all help.

Will

John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

As I recall it, When K & F became Fender in early '46 the Princeton steel had only a volume control and had an attached cord exiting on the side, the Deluxe had a volume and a tone, a jack at the tail and the "Organ Button" model had them both and a push button tone mod as well as a jack at the tail. The body shape was different also having more upper fret access (not that it matters since it was played lap style).
As for serial numbers according to Forest White (factory manager) serial numbers were only used so they could track warranty work and solve production problems.
I have not seen any K & F guitars with anything but numbers and they may have been largely consecutive. These were stamped as separate single digits on various places in the wood, on the head, tail, near the tuners, jack or maybe elsewhere.
Fender Electric Instrument Company stamped Princeton numbers on the tail the same way as the K & F guitars at first But added the A prefix to the number. Since these were hand stamped as needed, I can't imagine not keeping them in order since that is the only way to keep from duplicating them. I don't know if they started with 1 or 10 but I own A14 so I know they did not start with 100. Around A150 or so they started stamping numbers into the steel tailpiece-jack plate but they were still hand stamped a single digit at a time.
Deluxe models were marked with the B prefix but I have not seen any stamped in the wood. They all seem to be stamped in the jack plate implying they may have been introduced later. They also start very low and seem to be consecutive in their own run.
They also stamped the numbers on Organ Button models into the wood as well. Since their numbers are often high but they are less common, I suspect they actually continued the sequence started by K & F (the bodies were the same) but I can't prove it.
Little details and production changes make it all very interesting and help to build a timeline but without digging into years of compiled data and pictures that all I can recall right now.
When Fender started having various serial number plates produced and stamped out of house then they were dumped into baskets and could no longer be expected to be installed in exact numerical order on those models and can only be dated generally with an occasional number showing up way out of order from the others.

_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana.

Will Carter · From: Texas, USA

Thank you. This is tremendously helpful. I have a few clarifying questions, which you may or may not have opinions on:

John Dahms · From: Perkasie, Pennsylvania, USA

Again, answering off the top of my head, as I recall, Princeton and Deluxe shared the same body and the Organ Button seems to have used K & F style bodies.
If Fender used 0 as their starting point for each series I would expect that A14 would likely have been stamped on the first day they started using the name Princeton in 1946. I am assuming there were a bunch of guitars built each day and pictures of the factory seem to show this. Batches may have been numbered as they were made or after they were done and before shipping them out.
I don't have enough experience with K & F to be definitive but I think there was only 1 model that went through some changes over the time it was produced. Fender on the other hand offered the 3 models as a product line. Each model was serialed separately probably starting at 0. Since the Organ Button may have continued the serialization that had been used by the K & F guitars. I wonder if this is because the bodies were already stamped when they decided to add the button and tone circuit and call it a new model. Who knows? I don't.
_________________
Time flies like an eagle
Fruit flies like a banana.

Will Carter · From: Texas, USA

Thanks again. This all makes sense.

RE: the Organ Button and the old K&F bodies/stock, there are some pics online and you can tell there was some crude routing done to accommodate the extra controls. And these bodies of course look otherwise identical to the K&F bodies.

And if you follow the Robert Corwin link, you'll see a 4th early lap steel model with a Fender nameplate. This is essentially a K&F lap steel (their one and only model) with a Fender nameplate. You could argue that this is the first Fender branded guitar. You could also make the case that is really isn't - it is the first with a Fender nameplate but not the first guitar designed and manufactured by Fender Musical Instruments. That would go to the Organ Button, Deluxe, or Princeton.

Matthew Lutton · From: Indiana, USA

Hey I just acquired one of these and am wondering what the measurement for the felt backing are? It should be easy to replicate with the faded old outline but if you happen to know, or have pics of yours I’d love to see it too!

Cheers,
Matt

Nathan Laudenbach · From: Montana

Iv never seen a fender with the same body as a KandF.

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