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Topic: Alternative to V lever (the one that lowers the B to Bb) |
Britt Newsome
From: Colorado, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 4:03 am
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I am getting a new pedal steel built and am choosing the configuration. I have played two pedal steels in my life both of which had the straight-forward Emmons setup. The one part of this setup that I don't like is the vertical lever (lowers the 5th and 10th B strings by 1/2 step to Bb)- I use it rarely, but it is difficult to play physically (I feel like I am on a machine at the gym), and I am wondering if there is an alternative configuration that avoids the vertical lever. Perhaps I need to lower the lever itself to make it more accessible or simply practice more, but I thought I would ask about other setup options. Thank you. |
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Jon Light
From: Saugerties, NY
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 4:32 am
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Older steels with vert. levers (both Sho-Bud and Emmons come to mind) that do NOT descend down from the body are useless to me and my short legs. But some newer steels have found fixes. Mullen, Williams and Sierra are ones I know of (Williams & Sierra I own). The problem with a lever that is brought down to leg level is figuring out a way to close the case. These guitars have extension knuckles that fold back. My Williams hangs way low, less than an inch off of my knee and it requires very minimal movement. I use it a lot so this solution was huge for me. |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 6:15 am
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I use that B to Bb a lot and I have it on RKL on my Emmons.
The LKV was useless to me for the same reason t6hat Jon cites - short legs!
Junior Mercer, though, fitted a very effective extender that bring the lever down maybe 1.5" Now it's eminently usable and I have put my 1,2,7 raise on there. It works wonderfully and I've ordered the same on my new guitar.
Lowering the 5th (split tuned with the A pedal) has countless uses. Admittedly some can be achieved with half-pedaling the A, but by no means all.
Although my recently-acquired JCH has that pull on LKV, I don't have sufficient rods to switch LKV with RKL, so I live with it. The JCH' vertical can be adjusted downwards. _________________ Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Mike Holder
From: Alabama! Home of the great “Don Helms” & his singer “Hank Williams”!
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 6:17 am
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With that setup it is the most logical place to have that change and it’s very useful, I have always felt the steel should fit you like a suit so you don’t have to move very much to activate levers or pedals. If there’s a big difference in how much you have to raise your leg to hit the lever you may want to spend some time readjusting your guitar to fit your body. It does feel awkward at first but actually works better once you get used to it. Try this on one of your current guitars then have your new one built to those specs. _________________ I thought Nashville was the roughest, but I know I’ve said the same about them all.
I received my education, drivin through the Nation listenin to Paul!.. ( Franklin that is! ) |
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Tiny Olson
From: Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 6:27 am
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I have that change (Bs to Bb, strings 5 & 10) on my front, LKL lever. It's a staggered lever. I've been using it there for some 45 years. The rear LKL raises Es to F. I play D-10 Emmons guitars with a fairly standard Emmons setup, although I do have 7 levers on them.
I have found that change to be much more comfortable to use having it on the additional LKL lever. Other folks may not, for me it makes it. I have the opposite problem that many speak of in that I'm tall and need my guitars built 2" taller than standard. I've never had a problem reaching the vert lever, I just never found it all that comfortable to use. Like you said Britt, a machine at the gym. While I do have a vert lever for the E9th on my left knee I have my least-used change on it.
Hi Jon... hope you're well man. |
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Bill McCloskey
From: Nanuet, NY
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 6:29 am
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For me, hitting the V lever was nearly impossible until I lowered my steels by an inch and got a seat with adjustable height. I tried everything including using plumbing insulation to wrap around the lever so I could reach it easier. Now I have no problem hitting it. BTW, Paul Franklin's setup doesn't even have a B -> Bb lower. His vertical Raises the 6th string G# 3 half tones to a B. There is no B lower (other than on the franklin pedal which lowers it to A. _________________ Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Greg Cutshaw
From: Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 6:40 am
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Indispensable to me for C6 type sounds and diminished chords with split tuning. A bit awkward to hit but with the right height shoes and/or the right knee lever adjustment I can use it fluidly. I have staggered levers on the left knee left but they're tied up for other uses. |
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Dennis Detweiler
From: Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 6:48 am
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I have a 1975 and a 1976 MSA. Both U-12's. The stock vertical lever wasn't reachable for me. I configured a ball and socket, (like the floor pedals) detachable vertical lever to make it collapse and fit in the case. A quick connection when setting up. It's adjustable for height. Works great. I recently installed a 6th knee lever (LKR) staggered. I've found that the 4 knee levers on the left has to be tweaked according to where I sit at the steel and I have to be at that position each time I play to make them comfortable to play. It all works, but has to be detailed. My thoughts now are, maybe two left knee verticals next to each other would be more practical than two LKR knees? _________________ 1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 12" Eminence BP 122 speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Dennis Montgomery
From: Western Washington
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Nick Krol
From: Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 8:46 am
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Here's another vote for having it on a second LKL lever. Easier to hit and easier to go back and forth between the lever and the A pedal.
A lot of people talk about getting a full diminished 7th chord by having this change on the vertical with the A pedal split, and also B pedal and E lower. This combo isn't possible if you put it on the LKL and have the standard Emmons LKR E lower.
BUT diminished chords are nice in that if you are playing a full diminished 7th chord, you can move the shape up or down 3 frets and be playing a different inversion of the same chord. Which means you're never more than couple frets away from being able to play any diminished chord. So while that split trick mentioned above is a straightforward way of doing it, the standard Emmons setup already gives you a variety of ways to get the same thing. _________________ The sticker makes it sound better |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 9:58 am
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That diminished option is easy for me - A and B pedals with LKL to lower the Es and RKL lowering the Bs (split).
I believe Tommy White lowers his Bs on RKL, too (and he's a Day player- ).
I like that combo for a dim across 8 to 3. _________________ Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Bob Hoffnar
From: Austin, Tx
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 10:00 am
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I put the B to Bb (on the 5th string only) on my RKL.
I took off the vertical because I do better with a simple set up. _________________ Bob |
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Michael Sawyer
From: North Carolina, USA
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 11:20 am
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I put a the high E to F # on my vertical for some Mooney licks with A and B pedals down.
I dont even use the C pedal anymore. |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 1:16 pm
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Every so often, I will set up my old SKH Emmons with just 8+4. It requires me to think more laterally (if I want extended/altered chords) and, in any case, I could happily do a show on it (if I had any shows to play. )
Conversely, I enjoy a profusion of pulls (8+9 is my standard) because, while steel guitar has a beautiful sound, it is also a conundrum.
I'm sometimes of the opinion that it's a bit like a musical board game. ![Smile](images/smiles/icon_smile.gif) _________________ Roger Rettig - Emmons D10, JCH D10, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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John Hyland
From: South Australia
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Posted 18 Jul 2024 2:04 pm
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I don’t have a vertical but have the B>Bb on RKL. With emmons pedals it is nice knee squeeze action with the LKR and pedals for that dim. With a split and A pedal there is a chromatic run C# to Bb which I imagine is not very easy if using a vertical.
I’m more inclined to add extra pedals (and double foot if required) and am still thinking what might be best options for that. |
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Ron Funk
From: Ballwin, Missouri
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Posted 19 Jul 2024 5:45 am
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I share Tiny Olson's comments on this subject....
"I have that change (Bs to Bb, strings 5 & 10) on my front, LKL lever. It's a staggered lever.
The rear LKL raises E's to F."
....with only one slight change.....8 knee levers on all my Emmons D-10 steels |
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Bobby D. Jones
From: West Virginia, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2024 9:31 am
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This guitar needed lower plus length to make VKL use easy.
This wood addition has a lock, That locks the extension on the lever, But is easy to unlock and remove for casing the guitar.
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Dennis Montgomery
From: Western Washington
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Richard Alderson
From: Illinois, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2024 2:55 pm
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I have Bflat lower on Left Vertical Knee on one guitar & an extra 4th pedal on another. I can do either. But I actually prefer the 4th pedal and double footing for certain combinations. It feels psychologically more intuitive to press Down and Lower a string instead of raising your leg up. I do have to double foot for certain combinations such as AB plus Bflat, pulling my foot off the volume pedal, so I staggered the 4th pedal away from the other 3 to find it more easily without looking. But its not always double footing. only sometimes. The first pro level guitar I bought had Bflat as a 4th pedal, so I never knew any other way. There's always something different out there. There's always another way to get something done. _________________ Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.
Last edited by Richard Alderson on 20 Jul 2024 5:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Bobby Hearn
From: Henrietta, Tx
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Posted 20 Jul 2024 5:30 am
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I removed the Bb on the vertical and changed it to 6th string G#-F# with vertical. That change was on LKR but I raise 2nd a half with that lever and I use the G#-F# with the 2nd string D# a lot. |
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Donny Hinson
From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 20 Jul 2024 2:45 pm
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I've always had the B-Bb on a pedal, next to the A pedal. (It's my Day p4.) |
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Jim Palenscar
From: Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2024 7:45 am
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Reece said he couldn't live w/o that lever. Here's a mod I made for Greg Leisz
[img][/img] |
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Tucker Jackson
From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2024 9:35 am
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Look really adjustable, Jim. Is that a B to Bb change? |
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Jim Palenscar
From: Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 21 Jul 2024 9:43 am
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It is- I bent the lever to be relatively flat relative to the guitar prior to adding the extension. |
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