Are .11 - .46 strings on 25" scale too light?

Joseph Lazo · From: Wisconsin, USA

What do you all think? Are .11 - .46 strings on 25" scale too light? Tuned to open D, there's some string buzz type sound on full barre chords. Less in open E, but a brighter tone.

I like how easy behind the bar string pulls are with this gauge, but the strings feel a bit floppy in open D.

What gauge do you like for this scale length and tuning, and are string pulls on B and G strings still pretty easy to pull off?

Brooks Montgomery · From: Idaho, USA

I think you’ll find 16-56 works better. The sixth string D (56) is a little bit slack, but many use that gauge for open D. Many sets available.

And Asher sells sets for open D:
015p .018p .028w .038w .048w .058w
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first.

Allan Revich · From: Victoria, BC

MUCH too light for open D
16-56 should be OK. You can even go heavier on the bottom. I’m assuming that this is for a solid body lap steel. You wouldn’t want to go much heavier on a Dobro.

You can also make your own set by buying individual strings. That would allow you to lighten up on the B and G strings.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | G6 – G D E G B D
7 String | G6 – D G D E G B D

https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database

Joseph Lazo · From: Wisconsin, USA

OK, responses thus far are pretty much what I expected. Heaviest strings I had at the time were the .11 set, so I need to go string shopping. I'm thinking a wound G string would be a real plus.

Shea Stevenson · From: Alabama, USA

On a slightly related note and so I don’t start a needless thread, what gauges do you guys use on your C6 tuning? I have a 39 Ric the burst one with black/grey that sounds heavenly, truly as good as I’ve ever heard BUT it can pull the low E out of tune due to the magnets strength (only when played open tho), sounds like I turned a vibrato pedal on lol and the high E has to be played incredibly gently past the 9th fret or it touches the pole piece of the pickup…. When I say gently I mean it’s nuts how softly it was meant to be played, a gust of wind could fret this instrument. I assume the pickup is just a bit too high or the action a touch too low but I was wondering about string gauges because to my fingers these strings feel a good bit lighter than any other guitar I’ve used. On electric I like thicker strings, like .12’s or .13’s even, usually DR brand but I haven’t played steel long enough to have preferences and such….

Thanks!

Brooks Montgomery · From: Idaho, USA

C6 on 25”
014p .018p .022w .028w .034w .040w
_________________
A banjo, like a pet monkey, seems like a good idea at first.

Tony Oresteen · From: Georgia, USA

Which OPEN D tuning are you using?

1. (L2H) D A D F# A D - 151351

2. (L2H) D F# A D F# A - 135135

What is the SCALE Length of your 39 Ric?

To calculate a set of string tensions use an on-line tension calculator such as StringJoys:

https://tension.stringjoy.com/

I try to set my tensions at around 29-31 pounds of pull per string.

So for the first version of OPEN D I would use:

For #2 I would use:

The "O" column is the OCTAVE that the note is from. You have to know the octave of a note to use a tension calculator.

Consider these strings as a starting point. If they are too loose for you, then use thicker strings. If they are too tight for you then use thinner strings.

Once you find a set of gauges that you like then make up your own sets. I used Just Strings and I order 5 sets at a time. No relation with Just Strings.

Good luck!
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Tony
Newnan, GA

Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster T8 black
PedalMaster D8

Joseph Lazo · From: Wisconsin, USA

That's great info...thanks! I'm using the first of the two open D tunings you posted.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I was gonna post this yesterday, but I've been sick the last couple of days and fell asleep. So some of these points have been made, but here it is anyway.

What are all the gauges? Typical electric guitar sets starting at 11 go to 48, not 46.

First - you can end a lot of guesswork with a string tension calculator. There are several out there, but this one is convenient and I find it works fine for my purposes - https://tension.stringjoy.com/

For lap steel, even a standard guitar 11-48 set = 48, 38, 28w, 18p, 14, 11 low-high on a 25" scale in Open D = D A D F# A D low-high is around 14, 22, 22, 18, 15, 17 pounds on each string, respectively. To me, anything significantly under 20 pounds on a string feels very floppy, especially on steel or slide guitar.

Just to get up to 19-20 pounds per string, I calculate around 54, 36, 26w, 19p, 16, 12. That same set a whole tone up in Open E gets to around 24-25 pounds per string, which I believe is even considered a bit light for a lap steel. If I was really focused on Open D and E, I'd probably go for something more like 58, 38, 28w, 20p, 17, 13, which comes to around 22-23 pounds per string in Open D, and more like 28-29 pounds per string in Open E. I think 28-30 pounds per string is pretty 'normal' for steel guitar strings, but I don't think you're gonna do much pulling behind the bar at that tension. So if I really wanted more flexible bending of strings 2 and 3, for example, I'd perhaps lower the gauges on those specific strings a thousandth or two.

In those two tunings - Open D and Open E - I generally prefer a wound 3rd to a plain 3rd. That is, unless I want to bend it behind the bar, in which case a plain 3rd works OK and is definitely easier to bend.

I believe that approximately equal tension across the neck makes for a better playing and sounding guitar. Each string has an even feel, and IMO, a better balanced tone. No more problems with some strings being too taut and others sounding floppy and plunky. On a round-neck guitar, it allows me to raise the overall string tension as much as possible without over-tensioning the neck and causing problems. FWIW, not everybody agrees with me on this - in fact, stringjoy specifically suggests that lower strings should have higher tension. I personally disagree with this wholeheartedly, and note that some guitar string makers do in fact offer 'balanced tension' strings. D'Addario comes to mind immediately, with their 'balanced tension' electric guitar strings, and their "True Medium" acoustic guitar sets - the latter are a set made up of medium gauges on string 1, 2, and 6, and light gauges on 3, 4, and 5, i.e, hi-lo 13, 17, 24, 32, 32 56. But not enough sets are like this, and they're expensive and not easily available. So I just make my own up out of bulk single strings. I've been making up my own nonpedal steel and slide guitar sets like this for years. I don't know of anybody who makes nonpedal or slide guitar sets to my specs in the tunings I use. For me, dealing with tunings and strings is part and parcel of playing steel and slide guitar.

Tony Oresteen · From: Georgia, USA

Dave,

I hope you are feeling better. I hate it when I get sick.
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA

Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster T8 black
PedalMaster D8

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I'm doing significantly better today. Thanks.

Joseph Lazo · From: Wisconsin, USA

Dave, thanks for your detailed input! The strings I put on are Ernie Ball Power Slinky: 11 - 14 - 18 - 28 -38 - 48. I misspoke when I typed in "46" for the low string.

I actually ordered a set of Asher strings (.15 high string) earlier today. I don't want to lose the ease of string pulls, so looks like that set will be just for open D. Though I wonder if string pulls will be too much with that set.

I like your idea of the Daddario balanced sets. I didn't even know those existed. A .13 set would probably suit me better.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Joseph Lazo · From: Wisconsin, USA

UPDATE

I ordered and put on a set of .13 - .56 Daddario XL strings (with a wound third). I thought this would be a less drastic step up in gauge than the .15 Asher set I also ordered.

Tuned to open E, there's a HUGE improvement in tone, but string pulls behind the bar are dramatically tougher. The B string is manageable, but that wound 3rd string really requires a strong pull. The 3 lowest strings (bass strings) sound SO much better than the .11 - .46 set I had on.

Tuned to open D, string pulls on the B and G strings are totally manageable, but the low E string is a little flubby.

So, just curious... does anyone think a 13 - 17 - 26W - 36 -46 - 56 string set is too light for a 25" scale?

One thing I wasn't expecting is that the slot on the split shaft tuner for the low E string isn't wide enough to fit a .56 string. I had to scrunch it in and just have it lay flat, without the string going into the hole. Curiously, the opening on the high E tuner was wide enough to accommodate the .56 low E. I'm wondering if they put the tuners on the wrong side, because all the slots on the treble side tuners look slightly wider than the ones on the bass side.

Yeah, I know I'm using standard guitar references for the strings (E - A - D - G - B - E) just because it's my point of reference.

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