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Topic: Advice on an MSA Universal XL |
Michael Mowry
From:
New York City, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2024 7:54 pm |
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Hey y'all,
I'm relatively new to the larger world of pedal steels. I have been playing a student model for a few months, and have been having a great time of it. Recently I've been wanting to upgrade to a more serious guitar, and a universal feels like the logical choice to grow into. I found one recently that fits the brief for what I am looking for. Mostly. I have heard nothing but great things about MSA, but this one seems to have been neglected for some time. While I am not that phased by the cosmetic implications, I fear that the amount of grime it has accumulated (and the lack of care that implies) may impact its mechanical acuity. Also, the seller does not appear to be very knowledgeable about PSGs, which doesn't inspire much confidence.
https://reverb.com/item/82912014-msa-xl-the-universal-s12-supersustain-ii-pedal-steel
Do y'all think I am overreacting, or do you think this has the potential to be more trouble than it's worth? Thank you in advance for your time and insight. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2024 9:45 pm
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No, You are not over reacting.
A 50 year old guitar may need some serious Tender Loving Care. To play properly. |
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Per Berner
From:
Skovde, Sweden
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Posted 11 Jun 2024 9:48 pm
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| Looks quite good for its age, but a bit pricey for what it is... For that kind of money, you should be able to get a modern equivalent single neck guitar. |
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Ken Byng
From:
Southampton, England
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Posted 12 Jun 2024 1:17 am
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The guitar looks to be well covered in nicotine, and has either been played in a lot of smokey bars or the owner was a chain smoker. It would have been coloured green originally I think. It is priced higher than average for a guitar of this age. It would benefit from a strip down with a good clean and lubrication, but it's not a job for the faint hearted.
_________________
Show Pro D10 - amber (8+6), MSA D10 Legend XL Signature - redburst (9+6), Sho-Bud Pro 111 Custom (8+6), Emmons black Push-Pull D10 (8+5), Zum D10 (8x8), Hudson pedal resonator. Telonics TCA-500, Webb 614-E, |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2024 2:47 am
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way too much.. Reverb has stupid prices, period!,,, As far as MSA Classic guitars, parts are readily available, reasonably priced, and they are so well engineered and mechanically sound they very rarely need parts anyway.They are tough and extremely reliable..Have you checked whats available here on the forum??.. Typically you'll do better here than you will on Reverb or ebay,,, bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 12 Jun 2024 5:17 am
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It will turn into a great guitar with a total mechanical and cosmetic cleaning. I wouldn't pay quite that much for it. $2500.00 at most. I bought a 1975 S-12 MSA with 4 + 4 a few years ago for $1300.00. changer was locked up with old grease and house dust. I completely dismantled the mechanical parts, cleaned and reassembled. Added a Telonics 12X, three more floors and a vertical knee. Excellent guitar now.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 15" Eminence Wheelhouse speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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David Wren
From:
Placerville, California, USA
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Posted 12 Jun 2024 7:27 am
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hmmmm, I don't think MSA made a "Super Sustain" model as early as 1970?
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Dave Wren
'96 Carter U12,7X7; 1936 7 string National; Line 6 HX Stomp; Quilter TT-15/TB202; Quilter "Steelaire"; DV Mark "GH 250"with 15" 1501 BW; Boss "Katana" 100 Head w/Line 6 Cab; Telonics VP. |
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Dwight Lewis
From:
Huntsville, Alabama
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Posted 12 Jun 2024 4:31 pm Msa on Reverb
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From the pictures, I would pay more than 800. Bucks for it.... if you are not a technician or have great mechanical skills, you will regret buying this particular guitar, my opinion. Looks like nicotine all over it, than it's 40 plus years old....$800....tops
My cents
Dwight
_________________
Dekley 7p4k(PRS-10C), BMI S12 5p5kn |
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Michael Mowry
From:
New York City, USA
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Posted 13 Jun 2024 10:45 am
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| Hey y’all, thanks so much for the help! While I’m not completely helpless when it comes to understanding mechanical systems, I do want to make sure that I’m not going to spend more than a paycheck on something that I may have to sink significant time into getting it to work right in the first place. I’m gonna pass on this one and continue looking. Thanks again everyone! |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 13 Jun 2024 3:04 pm
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| I have no doubt it would work fine, after an oiling and being left to "loosen up" for a few days. But it's way overpriced for what it is, and for the condition it's in. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 13 Jun 2024 9:09 pm
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Well if you've decided against it, probably no point to my thoughts but I'll leave them anyway.
Your decision, your money....you should buy whatever suits your needs. I wouldn't advise you one way or the other. All up to you.
I don't know what you guys are seeing that would make this a $800 guitar. I'll take all you got of this era MSA Uni 12s for $800.
This era were pretty good guitars as I recall like the Vintage model.
Too much? Hell, they're all too friggin' high, but this is not out of the range of what similar D10s and even SD10s are being posted for. Even old Baldwins and chopped up double necks hacked into SDs.
Have you guys seen steel guitar prices lately?
30, 40 even 50 yr. old guitars are being listed for ridiculous prices. $6,7000 Zums, $4000 Super Pros?
Only thing I see is the pedal bar. Either it's been anodized or it's nicotine stained. Nicotine stains can all be removed. That wouldn't stop me from making a purchase were I in the market for a Uni 12. Some bar dings and scratching typical of a played guitar of this age.
No detailed pics of the mechanics, so those would be necessary to make an informed decision.
It's on the upper side of the price range yes, but assuming the mechanicals are all intact and working, not too bad.
If interested in a Uni 12, might be worth getting more info and making an offer on. Never know, they might make you a deal. |
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Wayne Brown
From:
Bassano, Alberta, Canada
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2024 3:46 am
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Well, there you go OP... $500 less than the one you were thinking about, and according to the post, maybe even a little more wiggle room on price. Not only that, the guitar is absolutely gorgeous to look at in a very unusual [for MSA] color scheme, and it sounds terrific.. Forget Reverb, thats a den of thieves, ebay too these days.. Your best deal on a pedal steel will be right here, unless you can find someone locally thats not interested in squeezing every last nickel out of a sale.
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 14 Jun 2024 5:15 am
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| That's not a Universal. It's a 3+4 single 12. It also has a few warts.... Even then it's only listed for $500 less which would be about right for a single 12 v. a 8+5 Universal 12. It looks nice, but the OP wasn't asking about that one so the point is moot anyhow. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 14 Jun 2024 6:26 am
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
| That's not a Universal. It's a 3+4 single 12. It also has a few warts.... Even then it's only listed for $500 less which would be about right for a single 12 v. a 8+5 Universal 12. It looks nice, but the OP wasn't asking about that one so the point is moot anyhow. |
Agreed, but steel guitar prices have gone crazy online past few years, and there's just not that much out there thats priced affordably anymore.. Almost not even worth buying used these days.. To MSA guys, this one with the "ZBesque" look- red and natural with rope inlay, is very unusual and could be expanded easily with a few pedals and a lever or two.. Really nice guitar, yes a few dings, but not many lacquer guitars from the era will be without them.. Would I pay $2500?/. no, but again, there just isn't much out there these days for less than that.... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 Jun 2024 9:36 am
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That body's obviously been redone. MSA never made bodies like that in that era. Nice job, though!
As to what I think a reasonable and fair price for that "nicotine queen", it would be in the somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range.
That $800 guesstimate be what the average flipper would like to pay.  Then he'd spend a day or two cleaning it up, and list it for $2800. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 14 Jun 2024 10:36 am
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| As to what I think a reasonable and fair price for that "nicotine queen", it would be in the somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range. |
Maybe 10 yrs. ago.
Good luck finding a decent MSA Universal 12 of this era in one piece for that money.
Even the old die board Classic S10s are being listed for more than than.
Look, I'm in agreement far as actual worth vs. today's prices is concerned, but that's just what you can expect these days. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 17 Jun 2024 3:52 pm
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What is interesting, Out of 20 pictures they show of the guitar in the advertisement. There is no picture of the actual under carriage of the guitar. Wonder if it is all there.
The 1st string is not on the guitar. Either it is the lighting or it has a coating of nicotine.
From what can be seen, The Vintage was built on the CLASSIC frame. Plate on back apron to remove cross shafts, Split Bell Cranks, With swiveling brass pull rod connectors.
Vintage Owners,
Did the Vintage have the Changer Shaft Support like the Classic?
The guitar is somewhere around 40+ years old. A complete tear down and pull the changer, A lot of cleaning and polish, New set of plastic spacers on changer shaft, And new cross shaft plastic bushings/bearings would help a lot in tuning and play ability.
I gave a 1973 MSA Classic its 50 year bath in 2023, And have some scars. |
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Steven Black
From:
Gahanna, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2024 6:23 am MSA U12 reply
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| Hello Michael, you called me on my U12 MSA, don't walk too fast past it, I checked the body out and it looks good, Reverb won't sell it if it didn't play, they have a reputation to keep, but it does need setup for you, and it does need cleaning, I would make an offer to them and see if they will except it tell them you will offer them $2,200 to $2,500 and see if they go for it, the changer looks good just needs cleaned too, and pedal bar needs cleaning, keyhead needs lifted and cleaned, yes you will have to get it cleaned back up, but if you like playing a U12 an MSA is a good choice, you need to see the endplates, and the undercarriage, the top neck is in excellent shape, let me know how it goes with the offer, case looks good. |
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Bill McCloskey
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Posted 18 Jun 2024 6:33 am
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| Quote: |
| Reverb won't sell it if it didn't play, |
Reverb doesn't have any way of checking on the quality of the instruments sold. And the listing is listed as "AS IS. NO RETURNS".
Way overpriced. Lots better deals out there for newer steels.
Last edited by Bill McCloskey on 18 Jun 2024 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Steven Black
From:
Gahanna, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2024 6:35 am MSA U12 reply
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| Hello Bobby, no the vintage U12 didn't have the changer supports like the classics did, because the classics had a wider bridgeplate, and wider finger string spacing, plus it was double raise double lower fingers, the Vintage are 3 raise 3 lowers, these vintage guitars were built to last, they just need a good cleaning and polishing as you said, once setup they are tone monsters, I am looking at a double 10 MSA SS right now. |
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Steven Black
From:
Gahanna, Ohio, USA
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Posted 18 Jun 2024 6:52 am MSA U12 reply
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| Bill, the body on this MSA has not been redone, I can tell it has not, it looks just like the one I have, mine was in worse shape, even my pedal bar was worse than this guitar, I had 9 4 hole bell cranks missing, Barry Coker is making them now, I polished everything, up sanded and polished the Pedalbar, the original changer was damaged but I had one here that matched, plus had tunning keys that were bad, Jim Palescar sent me new ones, someone had stripped my guitar completely apart I guess to clean, but he was never able to reassemble it, I finally got around to putting it back together, and it is almost done, if Michael can get a good deal out of that guitar, than $3,000 I would go for it, but yes $3,000 is too high, he could offer $1,800 but they might not go that low. I will post a picture of my MSA U12 here on the forum. |
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Susan Alcorn
From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
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Posted 20 Jun 2024 7:25 pm
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I have an MSA "The Universal" that is exactly the same as that one. It's a very good guitar and well-built like all MSA's from that era. $3000 is too much, but if you can knock $1,000 off of it, it would be a good guitar that you probably won't have problems with. That guitar will probably be on Reverb for quite a while.
_________________
www.susanalcorn.net
"So this is how you swim inward. So this is how you flow outwards. So this is how you pray."
- Mary Oliver |
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Susan Alcorn
From:
Baltimore, MD, USA
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Posted 28 Jun 2024 7:35 pm
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Perhaps ask the sellers for photos of the underside. Those are good guitars, especially when student models have become rather expensive.
_________________
www.susanalcorn.net
"So this is how you swim inward. So this is how you flow outwards. So this is how you pray."
- Mary Oliver |
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Michael Mowry
From:
New York City, USA
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Posted 29 Jun 2024 1:40 pm
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| I had him send me some, which he has since added to his posting. He won't go below $2300, so I'm still leaning away from it at this point. Plus I'd have to add the vertical knee lever to make it a true universal, which I'm not altogether against but it is more work and another external expense to contend with. Steven Black has an identical one that's being serviced by MSA right now which he might sell me. Should be ready in about a week or two. If the price is right, I'll spring for it. But if not I'll probably end up going with this one. |
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