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Topic: Long Gone Daddy (Kayton) |
Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 10 Jun 2024 4:54 am |
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Can we talk about what Kayton is doing in this song? Total newbie here, absolutely love this, not just the energy, that fill after the initial solos is WILD! What is he even doing there? Tone knob manipulation and…. Slides…? Is that all? It sounds so good and out even. This is one of the things that really interests me about steel, these sort of extended sounds. I know you could maybe kinda mimic it with a wah on a normal guitar but it’s in putting all this stuff together that the instrument becomes so expressive. Of course the end too with his HAMMER on’s! The idea of chord soloing in general is a bit new for me, I’ve definitely done octave runs, double stops, and triad stuff but the just straight … almost parallel harmony for solo is different. Thanks!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=4_FaewGy-KA&t=163&si=nNGnbNnh3Qi2sIKU |
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Andrew Roblin
From:
Various places
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Posted 11 Jun 2024 6:27 am
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| So great! |
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Tim Whitlock
From:
Colorado, USA
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Posted 11 Jun 2024 8:00 am
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The bar slams he does were very common in the 1950s with players like Speedy West, Joaquin Murphey, Leon McAuliffe and Noel Boggs. There are also those amazingly fluid, almost imperceptible, behind the bar pulls.
It's helpful to understand the tunings he used. The lower neck is C6/A7, with a low octave A string on the bottom, and the upper neck is F13. Both are somewhat unusual. Chris Scruggs uses the same tunings but substitutes E13 for F13, which is more common.
——Back neck———
From high to low
E
C
A
G
E
C#
A
A low octave
——Front neck———-
F
D
A
F
G
Eb
C
F |
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Bill McCloskey
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2024 5:36 am
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| Tim Whitlock wrote: |
The bar slams he does were very common in the 1950s with players like Speedy West, Joaquin Murphey, Leon McAuliffe and Noel Boggs. There are also those amazingly fluid, almost imperceptible, behind the bar pulls.
It's helpful to understand the tunings he used. The lower neck is C6/A7, with a low octave A string on the bottom, and the upper neck is F13. Both are somewhat unusual. Chris Scruggs uses the same tunings but substitutes E13 for F13, which is more common.
——Back neck———
From high to low
E
C
A
G
E
C#
A
A low octave
——Front neck———-
F
D
A
F
G
Eb
C
F |
Thank you! Yeah the bar slams are real hip and quite a sight at the right time live I’m sure, especially if the crowd is already feeling it. I’m going to practice that technique for sure. The behind the bar stuff is essential I’ve found. So many chords I’ve come to play require it. Plus it’s just so cool to go from a Emin7 to a Cmajadd9 in 1 half step bend…. Been practicing precision with my natural to half step to whole step bend and different mix’s just for muscle memory too, it’s all so fun. I’m hooked! |
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 21 Jun 2024 5:40 am
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Will definitely watch more! I have seen him some for sure, he’s become sort of ubiquitous with my steel searches it seems…. That said, if it’s a technique, I want it. Basically goes for everything in music though. I practice everything, even things I never really used. Had a whole routine for polyrhythmic tapping back in the day, chords and melodies… I just like to be competent when something is thrown at me. |
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 24 Jun 2024 4:58 am
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Would anyone be willing to listen to the start of the 2nd verse in Long Gone Daddy with Kayton and Chris to tell me what he’s doing? Is it really JUST tone knob manipulation that’s getting those wah sounds? I can’t imagine he used pedals, it just sounds so good and more exaggerated than others I’ve heard do it.
Thanks! |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 24 Jun 2024 10:09 am
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I can't really help you concerning Kayton's techniques but he was an amazing player. Everything he did was all him, no gimmicks, no effects. Slants, bar slams, harmonics, boo-wah...all that, techniques he perfected.
All his work with Hank Snow was stellar....listen to Among my Souvenirs. Also his instrumental work was dazzling. Such great tone and perfect execution. His Bells of St. Mary's instrumental he played all the way through twice with harmonics only and never missed a single one. Try that!
A little humor tossed in with things like Yellow Bird and he was a talker too.
In one of his interviews he was asked why he never played the big steel guitar shows such as Scotty's ISGC. He stated that he thought it was too much of an ego showy thing for players that he didn't subscribe to.
He did agree to do some of the shows in later years much to the delight of his fans and steel guitar aficianados generally. I think he discovered it wasn't so much about showing off as it was about sharing his talent and love for the steel guitar with others. At least I hope so.
His posture and the way he stuck the volume pedal outside the guitar are signature poses. I think he was one of the best ever at playing fixed tunings. I am fortunate to have seen him play a few times. |
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Shea Stevenson
From:
Alabama, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2024 7:28 am
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| Jerry Overstreet wrote: |
I can't really help you concerning Kayton's techniques but he was an amazing player. Everything he did was all him, no gimmicks, no effects. Slants, bar slams, harmonics, boo-wah...all that, techniques he perfected.
All his work with Hank Snow was stellar....listen to Among my Souvenirs. Also his instrumental work was dazzling. Such great tone and perfect execution. His Bells of St. Mary's instrumental he played all the way through twice with harmonics only and never missed a single one. Try that!
A little humor tossed in with things like Yellow Bird and he was a talker too.
In one of his interviews he was asked why he never played the big steel guitar shows such as Scotty's ISGC. He stated that he thought it was too much of an ego showy thing for players that he didn't subscribe to.
He did agree to do some of the shows in later years much to the delight of his fans and steel guitar aficianados generally. I think he discovered it wasn't so much about showing off as it was about sharing his talent and love for the steel guitar with others. At least I hope so.
His posture and the way he stuck the volume pedal outside the guitar are signature poses. I think he was one of the best ever at playing fixed tunings. I am fortunate to have seen him play a few times. |
I’ve been thoroughly impressed with everything I’ve seen from him. The few instrumentals I’ve heard like Valley of the Roses were great. Also, yes I can see harmonics being difficult due to the lack of options, unless you mean like steels version of pinch harmonics…? I use a pointed metal thumb pick rather than a plastic one because I prefer Jazz III’s with guitar and the shape is so similar (I hate round picks), it makes those harmonics much easier for me, you can barely touch the fret with the edge and pick with your forefinger. I find it way fast for single lines… at least comparatively but even with that, the complicated lines I try are still quite hard! For the slants I work on those a great deal, all different strings and combinations, going from reverse slants to forward ones in a single motion, I can see the importance, it literally can’t be overstated. Might as well not even play without them.
I don’t know much about the volume pedal…? So he used one like pedal steel players? I have a couple but don’t use them much yet, also not playing steel in a band either. When I start/join one soon I will be though. I wonder if he used it in conjunction with the tone knob to get those exaggerated wah sounds…? I know when he does it in the 2nd verse of Long Gone Daddy on that Marty Stuart Show episode, everyone in the band turns to look at him, they either weren’t expecting it either or are good actors.
As for the shows, I don’t know that particular one I’m quite new to this but have been a musician for 25+ years and I’ve definitely seen some things that came off more like music as sports than music as expression… not saying that’s what this was at all, his involvement def indicates that. Glad y’all got to see him in that light. That said, I do know the sort of thing he’s talking about. |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 25 Jun 2024 8:55 am
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Oh yeah, he used a foot volume pedal. How he incorporated it with the onboard one, I can't say.
He had it outside and up in front of the guitar I'm guessing because he was a pretty tall guy and he kept that Dual Pro at a lower position.
Here's a shot of him using what looks like an old DeArmond pedal from years back. He probably used many different ones over the years. https://youtu.be/6YkKJaCmQ-c?si=-1--CxXWX_SKEDf8&t=93
This is from a compilation on yt titled Kayton Roberts Steel guitar memories 1933-2017, I think if you care to peruse it.
Kayton was from the days when every player had a specific style partly because they almost never were around anyone else to mimic, plus they interpreted the thing to suit them and the artists they played for.
One thing's for sure, he had his own style. |
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