C6 Pedal 4 8th string change A-G

Bill McCloskey · Posted 7 May 2024 8:04 am

As I'm exploring the C6 neck of my Williams D12x I found that I have the current change:

the 4th string raise goes from A to B as usual,

but the 8th string goes from A to G rather than A to B.

It is a really pretty change, but I've been looking at other C6 copedents with this change and most have the low A going to B.

Anyone else use this change?

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

When I've had a P4 I've only been interested in raising 4, so if the 8th string raise seems redundant, why not repurpose if it serves your style?
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Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs

scott murray · From: Asheville, NC

a low G is very useful but I prefer to raise string 9. you can raise both 9 & 10 a whole tone for a lovely 4-over-5 chord, I use that a lot.
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1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster

Bill McCloskey · Posted 9 May 2024 7:48 am

Interesting Scott. I don't have a full tone raise on my 9, but I can get that change with my 7th pedal strings 8 6 5 4.

I'm really loving the 4 pedal (and in reality with my crossover, my 1st pedal).

Having the B raise on 4 and G lower on 8 is really a nice change that I'm loving the sound of. People often downgrade the 4th pedal, but I can see it becoming a really important change for me.

Trevor Marshall · From: Amesbury, Wiltshire, United Kingdom

Hi Bill, I also lower my low A>G, but together with raising high A>Bb on C6 LKL. I decided on this as high A>B raise is already on pedal 7 & I wanted to use pedal 4 for other things - but I am missing the adjacent B/C tension sound of usual pedal 4.

I'm not sure why more players don't incorporate this change as it seems pretty complementary to many pedal/knee combinations. Chordally it can add (open):
- low 5th to open C7,
- fill out low end of Db/E/G/Bb°7 with pedal 8,
- lovely Eb6/9 with pedal 6,
- low m3 to Em7/13 with pedals 7&8,
- F11/13 with pedal 6
- low root for G6 with pedal 7
- low A7 with pedal 8,
...among other things, so I'm finding it a pretty useful addition - but there may be reasons to favour other changes that I haven't understood yet.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I too missed that A to B raise once I had reassigned P4 to raise 10, 6 (D/F) and lower 2 to Eb.

I have now put the old P4 change on my MKV and it works very well with P5.

Now the cat is well and truly among the pigeons!!! Raising 9 and 10 a whole tone???

Back to the drawing board...
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bill McCloskey · Posted 9 May 2024 12:06 pm

Roger (who is officially my hero), I never had the change to miss. When I ordered my Williams D10, I hadn't really played yet so I just copied Paul Franklin's Copedance which doesn't have that change.

I've also had to adjust to the E's being back on left, but I'm finding I like it better and may change the Williams D10 copedence over to the Williams D12 copedence.

What I have now is not b0b's original copedance but Marvin Born's changes which I'm just starting to explore. I'm absolutely gobsmacked by some of the changes I'm just now discovering, the A-B/A-G change just being one of many voicings I'm discovering. Plus the extended C6th with both G and D on top gives me the best of all worlds.

And I don't even have to scootch over. I'm blown over.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I don't hear the word 'hero' much in this house, and certainly not just after I've ordered a new steel. I'd be obliged, Bill, if you'd PM Mrs. Rettig and put her straight.

As I came to C6th many years after my E9-based career, I find I'm being sucked into replicating the cliches of that tuning. If I set out to play a tune on the C neck, I let it go where those classic pedal-changes dictate.

You've elected to jump straight into PF's setup; clearly, it works beautifully for him but I do note that, in his course, he's at pains to point out that he's moved things around from Emmons' original concept. He also stresses the efficiency of the standard 5/6/7/8 pedals.

On E9, I've followed my own path to a small extent; not playing the C neck years ago, I had to learn fast how to get extended chords on E9. I recall one arranger telling me on the phone: 'You'll need the back neck on this session.'

I wondered what was in store but, mercifully, all he needed were some 13ths and a #11th. To this day, he probably thinks I played the back neck on that.

Very best of luck with your comprehensive and astounding new steel!!
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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