Aftermarket bell-cranks: a possible 'fix'?

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

As per my other thread, I've been chasing my RKR tuning only to discover that the single bell-crank that transfers the leverage from the lever to the cross-rod has fractured:

I have a new one on there now and all is well - for a while!

I recall Dave Robbins having some excellent high-quality (cast?) BCs for an Emmons. Sadly, Dave is no longer with us.

Is there another source for these?

Look at this poor BC - it's given up the ghost!

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Michael Yahl just posted, PSG Parts is back on line and opened up again. May have what you need.
Good Luck getting your guitar repaired and Happy Steelin.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Bobby:

Thanks; I saw that and checked, but he doesn't list an Emmons all-pull BC.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

Roger, I'd think the Carter Magnum bellcranks on page 3 of Michael's psg website might be a workable alternative to the Emmons parts.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Hi, John - thanks.

They certainly look as if they'd fit, but they're still just stamped metal like the Emmons'.

Almost of the BCs on my guitar are perfectly adequate; that one bell-crank taking the strain of all five pulls on RKR, though (in the center of the X-shaft), needs to be made of something more durable.

This is at least the third one that has broken. I'm hoping to get a milled one from somewhere.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Just a thought on your problem.
Here is a picture of a double bell crank setup I am going to use as a lock on D knee lever for B6 on a uni.

Would something like this work, This would give you 2 Bell Cranks to take the stress of your 5 string pull. This was made for a GFI 5/16" square cross shaft. But could be made to fit Emmons bell cranks.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

That's the sort of rigidity required in my situation, Bobby.

I have some spare Derby BCs that are more substantial than the stamped metal Emmons.

This, however, would require a new rod (without the bend-and-groove): I cannot see how the existing rod is attached to the base of the RKR.

However, your doubled-up BCs look like a great suggestion.

Thanks for taking the trouble to take a pic and reply!
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

PM sent
thanks
wayne
_________________
Owner Out West Music,Seats,Parts and accessories
www.outwestcountry.ca

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, Wayne - I have replied.

A thought occurred to me on my morning walk....

Suppose I placed a second standard BC flush up against the existing one (or as flush as possible), then put two nuts-and-bolts (they'd have to be tiny to fit through the BC holes); this would transfer all that stress to two bell-cranks.

I know from experience that you can't monkey around with the angle if that rod! Nothing works if the pivot is changed, so my idea would leave all that intact.

A visit to the hardware store and I would surely find a suitable size of bolt/nut?
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Steve Hitsman · From: Waterloo, IL

Older Fessenden cranks will work and they're "beefier" than Emmons'.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Here's what I've done.

It's not pretty, and it's possible that the mechanically-minded may see a flaw in my reasoning, but I think this has to transfer at least some of the stress on this BC and spread the load to two standard Emmons' bell-cranks.

I wanted to reverse the 'slave' BC so it was closer to its neighbour, but the holes wouldn't line up and I was thwarted.

Posted with apologies to the Emmons experts on here!! Smile

A 'PS' to the mechanically-minded: I have now straightened the BCs on the X-shaft; they're slightly off-kilter in my picture.

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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George Webb · From: Mississauga, Ont, CAN

Roger,
Your fix also worked for me and held up for several years. The only improvement I'd suggest is to put secondary nuts on the inside of the bellcrank to help keep the screw 'square' to the bellcrank. See photo.
Cheers,
George Webb

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, George - I had a feeling as I was fitting it that there was a possible weakness in my master-plan.

I will get more nuts!!!
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

A thought on your problem.
If you could construct a short brace. Shaped like a bell crank, With the base reversed and only about 5 or 6 holes tall, Place it tight against the bell crank with pull rod attached, Bolt the brace to the bell crank with short bolts through the pull rod holes. And bolt to cross shaft like a bell crank. Would greatly improve its ability to take the pressure your 5 pulls is generating.

Henry Matthews · From: Texarkana, Ark USA

Barry Coker · From: Bagley Alabama, USA

I have made several of these cranks for Tom Bradshaw (His design) they are very much like the old style MSA cranks but fit a squair shaft might be an option. This one is made of 3/8" material but 1/2" could be used for clearance if needed.

Barry
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Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!!

Steven Black · From: Gahanna, Ohio, USA

Barry Coker made me a new bell crank for my MSA XL U12, it works wonderfully, he is a man of his word, will have him make me more parts. Steve Black.

Barry Coker · From: Bagley Alabama, USA

Thanks for the kind words Steve hope you are doing well.

Barry
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Zum-D-10, Webb 614-E, 65 Pro Reverb, Evans RE200, 69 Gibson Birdland, 89 Telecaster EAD Bad!!

John Hyland · From: South Australia

To be pedantic, the double BC would work best if the connection between the two is rigid. A bolt through a solid spacer block for instance. With the bolt option I would expect the secondary BC to slightly lag behind the one with the rod attached, although significantly better with double the number of nuts as suggested. I think over time there is a potential for the bolt solution to wear so pay attention to it.

Roger - your thought to get the two bell cranks closer is correct but you can only do what you can do.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Many thanks, guys!

I'm keeping an eye on it: so far, so good.

Smile

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Roger I was at a friends Tuesday, He loaned me a Emmons 14 hole BC. Now I can do some real figuring on your problem.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

My 'fix' is holding up well so far, Bobby.

I wish it was neater, though. My theory was to reverse one BC so that they sat almost flush with each other. I couldn't make them line up, however.

I'll be interested to see what you come up with.

Thanks!
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Charley Bond · From: Inola, OK, USA

Has anybody thought of getting it repaired, by welding..? It will be like new then, maybe for $20...
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Wayne Brown · From: Bassano, Alberta, Canada

Roger's delema got me thinking also I have seen this before on the forum. So here are some pictures of a ROUGH prototype bell crank that should fix the problem. They are 5/16 wide machined aluminum with the standard 14 holes that mount on a 5/16 square shaft. These are the same width at the base as on a standard Emmon's 14 hole stamped bell crank. The real ones will be finished Monday. It will be offered as a kit for the RNR Emmon's or if you wish any Knee with an issue. It will come with the Bell crank, pinch screw, rod and a retaining clip. Just figure out the hole you are going to use. Insert the supplied rod, insert the clip, adjust the rod and your off to the races.
However I sure could use the length measurement of the RNR rod. If anybody could help with that.

Thanks
Wayne
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Owner Out West Music,Seats,Parts and accessories
www.outwestcountry.ca

George Webb · From: Mississauga, Ont, CAN

Hi Wayne,

I've removed that rod from my 1998 Legrande III and measured it.

It's .110 inch material with opposite right angle bends.

It was easiest to measure the total length ... about 2.850 inches (see picture). That's roughly 2 7/8 inches between the center lines of the bends.

Both ends have the standard C clip grooves.

Hope this helps. I'd be glad to test any prototypes.

Cheers,

George

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