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Topic: Carter finger polishing question |
Scott Spanbauer
From:
Boulder, Colorado, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2024 1:21 pm |
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After reading some other discussions here about harsh overtones and other noises, I have done some very cautious polishing of the finger tops on my E9th neck (using Mothers and just the white cardboard stick of a Q-tip).
The results are encouraging, but things are still not smooth, and I'm still getting harsh overtones, most noticeably above the 12 fret.
I'm wondering how people keep up with de-grooving their finger tops. I'm tempted to mask off the slots between fingers and (very very cautiously) take some 4500 emery cloth to the tops, then polish. Thanks!
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Carter D10, Emmons GS10, T8 Stringmaster, 50s Fender Deluxe
johnnyblueheart.com |
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Scott Spanbauer
From:
Boulder, Colorado, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2024 1:26 pm
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...and I'm quite sure that it is not the return springs vibrating. Some days I spend more time laying on the floor looking up at the guitar's undercarriage than playing it.
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Carter D10, Emmons GS10, T8 Stringmaster, 50s Fender Deluxe
johnnyblueheart.com |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2024 8:01 am
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What does it sound like acoustically, with the amp off (and left-hand fingers resting on the strings behind the bar)? Do you hear the overtones?
Every year or so, I use 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper -- wet it and sand out the grooves, being very careful to maintain the arc of the finger. Sanding a flat spot on the top of the finger just makes the 'zing' problem so much worse, so be careful when sanding and move all around the arc of the finger to maintain it's shape!
I then finish it off with Simichrome polish. |
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Scott Spanbauer
From:
Boulder, Colorado, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2024 10:58 am
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Yup, it's there unplugged as well.
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Carter D10, Emmons GS10, T8 Stringmaster, 50s Fender Deluxe
johnnyblueheart.com |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2024 7:52 pm
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If you have long Key Heads and you have real sharp ears, Some people can hear the dead string in the key head.
At one time when you seen a picture of Mr. Lloyd Green's steel, He had foam stuck between the strings in the key head. He stated, "He could hear the sound from strings in the key head, If not muted". |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2024 8:31 am
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| Scott Spanbauer wrote: |
| Some days I spend more time laying on the floor looking up at the guitar's undercarriage than playing it. |
I have a Carter that has a mechanical vibration that you can hear when the amp is off. This is really different than the normal 'zing' you get on the 4th string when there's a groove on the changer finger. Don't know where the vibration is coming from but I think it's in the changer. Luckily, it doesn't come through the amp so it's a non-issue. |
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John Sims
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
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Posted 7 Mar 2024 9:14 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
If you have long Key Heads and you have real sharp ears, Some people can hear the dead string in the key head.
At one time when you seen a picture of Mr. Lloyd Green's steel, He had foam stuck between the strings in the key head. He stated, "He could hear the sound from strings in the key head, If not muted". |
I have this issue between strings 5 & 6 at the keyhead, except I used a folded piece of rubber washer. I like the foam idea. Thanks! 
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Best Regards,
John
1997 Carter U-12 Double Body-Natural Birdseye Maple-8p/5k, Peavey Nashville 1000 Amp, Goodrich L10K Vol. Pedal, Boss DD-3 Delay, Boss CE-5 Chorus, Behringer UMC-204HD Audio Interface, AKAI MPK Mini MK3 Professional Midi Keyboard/Controller, Gretsch Bobtail Resonator, Fender Banjo, Rondo SX Lap Steel (C6), DIY Lap Steel (Open D), and a few Mojo Hand Cigar Box Guitars (MojoHandGuitars.com). |
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John Larson
From:
Pennsyltucky, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2024 9:54 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
If you have long Key Heads and you have real sharp ears, Some people can hear the dead string in the key head.
At one time when you seen a picture of Mr. Lloyd Green's steel, He had foam stuck between the strings in the key head. He stated, "He could hear the sound from strings in the key head, If not muted". |
I use thin strips of felt snaked in between the strings (got the idea from the felt in piano dampers) I do this on all my 6 string guitars that have this issue as well.
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Rejoice in the Lord, O ye righteous; praise is meet for the upright. Give praise to the Lord with the harp, chant unto Him with the ten-stringed psaltery. Sing unto Him a new song, chant well unto Him with jubilation. For the word of the Lord is true, and all His works are in faithfulness. The Lord loveth mercy and judgement; the earth is full of the mercy of the Lord.
- Psalm 33:1-5 |
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Scott Spanbauer
From:
Boulder, Colorado, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2024 10:14 am
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I stuffed a rag between the strings at the keyhead--no change. Did some more listening and it turns out the loudest overtone (an undertone, actually, it's lower than the notes I'm playing) only happens when I play strings 5 and 4 together. I think I'm going to try some more polishing.
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Carter D10, Emmons GS10, T8 Stringmaster, 50s Fender Deluxe
johnnyblueheart.com |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2024 10:52 am
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And you've tried changing out those strings? Or are there overtones there across string changes? Manufacturing errors can cause all kinds of odd things.
| Scott Spanbauer wrote: |
| I think I'm going to try some more polishing. |
Cool. But take a close look first when you loosen the string. If the finger is gouged enough to be causing 'zing' such that it requires polishing, you should be able to see the gash cut into the finger. If you don't see any divot, polishing probably won't do much. The point of dressing that finger is to polish enough to remove the visible gouge that the string has cut into the metal over time.
Another quick test is to loosen the string slightly and move it a little over to the side of the finger -- and presumable out of the slot it's been sitting in, if there is one. Then tune back up to see what you have.
And one more trick: loosen the string and put a very small bit of paper under the string where it sits on the finger. Then tune it up.
If either of those options sounds better, yeah, it's time to dress the top of the finger. Or you can leave the paper there; at least one person on the Forum reports that it sounds good and doesn't affect sustain, etc.
But I polish on an only-as-needed basis, which works out to every year or two. It requires something with more grit than polishing cream. I use 600-grit paper. Try to keep filings out of the changer by wetting the paper first and polish equal amounts all around, top and shoulders. Then finish off with polishing cream to get it to a mirror-like smoothness... and keep the cream out of cracks between the fingers. It's all a delicate operation. |
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Scott Spanbauer
From:
Boulder, Colorado, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2024 12:59 pm
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Yup, the grooves are there and the overtones are still there there after a string change. I appreciate all the questions and suggestions. I'm going to try the paper thing just for the hell of it!
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Carter D10, Emmons GS10, T8 Stringmaster, 50s Fender Deluxe
johnnyblueheart.com |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Mar 2024 9:59 am
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I tried the paper thing on my Carter. I gave a Nope-Minus.
Sanding is the only real remedy. I do a little bit every string change just to keep the problem from showing up. Somebody should design a tool for this job so more than one finger at a time can be done. Otherwise it is a very tedious and time consuming gig when all you really wanna do is play the darn thing. My homemade tool is one of these Warner paint scraper blades:
They’re about 2” long and the radius is pretty close to that of the changer finger top. Double-edge tape a strip of 600-grit to the business side of the blade and you can do 5 fingers at a time. Still a PITA, but better than doing one at a time. I use an air compressor or tire pump to blow out any dust that gets in between the fingers.
Always sand in the direction of the radius, not cross-ways over the changer. I do every finger. They all get those grooves, so even if they don’t zing they get sanded.
I have seen a video of a guy who removed the changer to clean it, mounted it in a vise, and then sanded the finger tops with 3” belt sander paper that he fed all the way through the changer and just went down and back 15 or 20 times in a perfect arc. A thing of beauty! But I wouldn’t want to be removing the changer every time the fingers needed sanding. Unless there was a changer that just popped out with the flip of a switch or something 😎 |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2024 10:30 am
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| Harry Jackson dressed my steel guitar fingers on his milling machine with a jig he made . Nice job no more zing. |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 10 Mar 2024 10:36 am
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No zing!
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