50 year old Newbie...is this even possible?

David Wheeler · From: California, USA

A couple weeks ago, I picked up a used Williams 12-string E9 steel guitar. A neighbor passed away and his daughter was selling this thing, and I felt like I couldn't pass it up. In my little town, I've looked for a pedal steel player with no luck and was surprised that a guy down the street played. I head considered picking up a guitar for a few years now, but nothing ever came available in my area. (I live in the Sierras in a really small town.) So I picked this up and it came with all kinds of books and notes and ancillary gear. I have been playing guitar for over 30 years, have studied music and thought, "I'll be able to do this!" Then I started trying to play this thing. Does the incredible disappointment I feel resonate with anyone else's story? I mean, I'm trying to follow this Helms guy and his 100 licks, and I am working on the first for a week and I'm not able to sound very close...at all. I know there is a learning curve. And I know if I stick this out, I may get better. But I feel very disheartened. Any advice? I've watched videos, which are marginally helpful, but I still don't feel like I'm seeing everything going on. And there is a lot going on with PSG. Way more than I ever even began to understand.

Anyway, here are some photos of this old beast. I mean beaut. I think it's a nice guitar, right? I don't even know if I'm pasting this photo correctly.
[img]http://image_url[/img]

Joseph Carlson · From: Grass Valley, California, USA

I'm guessing you bought the U12 Williams in Sonora?

Up that way I think Tom Quinn in Ione and Josh Lacey in Sutter Creek both play pedal steel.

Gary Wessels · From: Vernon, British Columbia, Canada

David,
I know...it's tough. I started late too.
Consistent practice, of the correct type, will get you there.
What's your practice routine right now?
Gary

Paul Seager · From: Augsburg, Germany

Well, I started pedal steel later than 50, albeit via other instruments. But it is a steep hill to climb because the style of playing has no equivalents - even coming from lap-steel, there is so much different about it.

Park the "100 Licks book", you need to take a step back and get the basics down. I highly recommend Paul Franklin's "Foundations: E9 Pedal Steel Basics" course on Modern Music Masters. It is video-based, a 99$ subscription is for a year and there is enough material for a person with a day job to busy one's self for a whole year. It gets very much into the musicality of the instrument rather than theory. The theory stuff is also there but in the PDF's rather than the videos.

As you have a 12 string instrument, which may be an E9 or a Universal, you should figure out where the pedals / levers are that correspond to the standard Emmons E9 on which the course, indeed most training material, is based.

I recall a quote that "it takes 2 years before you really suck" at Pedal Steel and there is an element of truth in that statement. But it is such a sweet sounding instrument that, if you set your goals realistically, is fun to learn.
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Derrick Phillips · From: Jacksonville, FL

Hi David,

You’re not too late. You can do it

I agree with the other comment about parking the licks book. Personally if I was to start over I’d start with the right hand and I’d start right here:

http://www.sierrasteels.com/lessons/lessons-index.html

This is Joe Wright and everything on that page is free.

Start with the lap steel lessons as there he goes over the right hand for a complete beginner, very slow and methodical. Also, have fun on the journey. But yes, some days are maddening and make you question if it’s possible. It is possible!

Good luck.
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Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Learning your right hand technique (positioning, picking, chord string grips, blocking [both palm and pick]), and left hand technique (how to hold the bar, proper downward pressure [very little] on the strings, vibrato, intonation), should be your first priority. Forget licks for now.

No, 50 is not too late. It looks like you have some good general music knowledge, so that's half the battle you have already won. I would think a teenager with no previous music experience would have a much harder time than a 50 year old with a good deal of music experience.
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Ken Metcalf · From: San Antonio Texas USA

I just put this up because it has been disappearing along with Carter information.
I am not sure of the status of Carter but here you go.

Pedal Steel for 6 string guitar players Carter John Fabian

https://youtu.be/Fno0HH69zfQ
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Jim Pollard · From: Cedar Park, Texas, USA

Well let's see I started two years ago and I'm... 52. So, yes. You can do it. Yes. I'm starting to suck at pedal steel. The good news is that I suck mostly for myself and when I play with other people stick to stuff I know works. I had a head start with years of guitar strumming and a few years of lap steel. The Joe Wright stuff I found extremely helpful in getting my right hand together. Once I felt ok with that stuff I tackled the Paul Franklin E9 Foundations course which is very very good. Gave me all the basics. When I started I very definitely had moments of "Uhhh. I don't think I'm going to be able to do this". But stick with it. It's a wonderful instrument.

Charlie F. Brown · From: Austin, TX

David, you can totally do it! It’s awesome at any age to have the opportunity and willingness to try something new.

I started playing in the last few weeks after years of guitar study. The things I’ve found to be most helpful are:

1. Get to know the instrument and how it’s set up and exactly how it all works. Make a chart that shows how all the strings are tuned and how each lever and pedal affect each string (copedent). Print this out and pin it to the wall in front of your steel so you can stare at it while you play. If you find your copedent is just totally weird and no one on the forum seems to use something similar then I suggest changing it to something standard if you feel handy and can be patient enough to go through a process that can take many hours and require a few trips to the hardware store…

2. Pick a few strings to focus on. I found three in the middle that make a major triad… not sure how this will be on your steel but for me it’s thumb, skip a string, index, middle. I noticed that my A and B pedals and some of my knee levers made a lot of changes on these notes. I pretty much ignored all the other strings until I figured these out. In this way, just have fun exploring the way the pedals and levers and combinations of different pedals and levers together affect the notes. You can make beautiful sounds doing this!

3. Start trying to find I, IV, V, and vi chords in positions that do not require a ton of bar movement. An example of this on my steel is using that major chord grip I described with no pedals (I), then adding A+B pedals (IV) then releasing pedals (I) then doing LKR+B (V) then release (I) or do A only (vi).

4. Start trying to find chord inversions for I, IV, V, vi using different AB and lever combination s. There are three for each chord (and four for V). Once you do this you can play I, IV V, vi all over the neck!! This gets you through most any song.

Once I did this I was able to make sounds i liked over some tunes. I just put some music on and allowed myself to really suck at being the pedal steel player in the band, but slowly I got a little better and had moments where things started clicking and making more sense. I am still pretty intimidated by this exercise.

Now I like to try to figure out familiar tunes or old hymns and see if I can find melody and chords. I try to incorporate good right hand technique.

Some Tips I’ve come up with:

- when you’re practicing picking technique either leave your volume pedal at max or take your foot off. It’s an unnecessary distraction and it is a crutch for articulation.

- Mickey Adams has some short beginner videos on right hand technique that really helped me (pick blocking)

- get your YouTube machine in an easily accessible space so that you can comfortably use it from your steel.

- when you get discouraged just spend some time making beautiful sounds.

- don’t forget to adjust the instrument for your height and posture. Arms should be parallel with the floor from your elbows (or close to it) and you should be comfortable. Even so, my hips and hands are sore..

- be aware that things you read on the forum aren’t the letter of the law, and some things can just be discovered or deduced on your own. The beauty of an instrument which such variety and personalization in tuning configurations is that it encourages you to find your own way.

While you’re finding your way, ask questions and don’t forget to just enjoy the process.

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Samuel Phillippe · From: Douglas Michigan, USA

Too late? I don't believe so I started two years ago at 84, and yes like you, it is taking a while to get to where I think I should be.

Learn the basics like chord grips, scales and chords. Watch you tube for things you think you need to know.
I'm presently getting to know how to use the volume pedal. It has taken quite a while, but practice, practice, practice and you will get there.I'm on the steel at least 1/2 hour a day and quite a few days 2-3 hours. My song playing is limited but still practicing techniques...It's never too late, you'll get there.

Sam

Casey Saulpaugh · From: Asheville, NC

Dave Stagner · From: Minnesota, USA

Well, there's two things... learning to play pedal steel, and learning to play music. If you already know how to play music on another instrument (like guitar or piano), you have a starting point. I started playing pedal steel at 58, but that was after 40+ years of serious guitar playing.

If you don't know the copedent of your instrument, that's where you start. Try every pedal and knee lever on every string. There are multiple common copedents/tunings for 12 string (extended E9 and universal), but individual instruments sometimes have their own unique quirks. If it has 3-5 pedals, it's probably extended E9; if it has 7-8 pedals, it's probably universal.

Since it's a Williams, you might try emailing Williams with the serial number, and see if they can tell you the copedent it shipped with (although that might have changed).

Once you know the copedent and have it tuned correctly... forget all that! Treat it like a regular 10 string E9, figure out which two pedals are A and B (probably the two on the far left), and start just playing. Stick to the four strings in the middle (G#-B-E-G#) and just start picking. Play a couple of notes, press the A and B pedals together. Then press just one, and lean into the other while the notes are still ringing.

And you'll hear it. You'll hear the tragic whine of classic country. Play the four notes open. Press the pedals. Slide up two frets. Slide back down. Release the pedals. Start working those three chords in different orders and see what happens. You're playing music! You're playing pedal steel!

Everything else after that is just gravy.
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Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Joe Bill Moad · From: Oklahoma

A lot of Great Advice in this post! I really enjoy Joe Wrights Lectures. Seems totally Common Sense to a 68 year old beginner like me. I have been plucking on my Magnum Pro Select and every now and then hit a string of runs or a small part of them. Then I cannot do them again as I thought I would be able to, the next day. It’s kind of like song writing in a way that if you don’t write down what the idea was in your head, it never comes back to you again. I am more motivated to play respectable for people that I will not quit until I do. This is addictive!

Thanks to the Greatest Forum!

Joe Bill Moad
Oklahoma
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Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

You do not just sit down at the guitar, You put it on like pants, boots and gloves. You want the guitar to fit you, Height of guitar, Pedal height and knee lever location.

If you are already a guitar player and musician. Purchase a Mel Bay E9th Chord chart. Here on the forum they are sold under Instruction top left at top of page, Some other locations on the internet. It is like a road map of chords on the E9th neck.

Pick out a song like (Some Day Soon in G). It will show how with bar, pedals knee levers and strings to play G,C,D, Em and Dm in different locations on the neck.

Then either enroll in steel guitar lessons on the internet, Or find a local teacher to help you understand many of the other things you need to learn to play steel guitar.
Good Luck on your Steel guitar journey, Happy Steelin.

Doug Taylor · From: Shelbyville, Kentucky, USA

I started at 63, in 69 now!

Paul Mageau · From: Maine, USA

I just started and I am 66 Smile

! Never to late to learn anything !

Fred Thompson · From: Zephyrhills, FL

David, I started pedal steel at 62 and know what you're feeling. My advice is to find a copy of Winnie Winston's "Pedal Steel Guitar". It's easy to understand and takes you from tuning to playing. My next bit of advice: Practice, Practice, Practice!
Go for it and have FUN!!

Fred
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Don R Brown · From: Rochester, New York, USA

I started a couple weeks short of 63 and I'm now 75. You can do it.

Lots of good advice above here but I'll add three more tips.

First, your progress will not be linear, it's more like stair steps. You will learn stuff, then you may feel "stuck" at a level and think it's a brick wall. Don't give up, because at some point you will jump up like a stairstep and go on from there at a higher level.

Second, evaluating skill level is like comparing net worth. Unless you're Elon Musk or Bill Gates, there's ALWAYS somebody with more money. Likewise I have talked to MANY 40 and 50 year players, who I consider just awesome, say they watch some of the gurus like Franklin or Jernigan, and feel like putting their steel out to the curb. Play for what makes you happy, don't try to be as good as ____ is.

Third, there's an old saying "Don't look back". That does NOT apply here IMHO. I have made some recordings in the past. Once in a while I'll listen to one of those and realize hey - I may have an infinite amount more to improve, but I DO sound way better than I did 2 years ago.

Good luck and have fun!
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J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

I think 50's can be a GREAT age to learn. In that age group, even us men are fully adult, have experience, know what works and what doesn't and can be very methodical. Let that never be help up against your decision and effort as it can be a great advantage.

I am re-learning PSG from 0 after having fooled around with it from my late teens on, and yes, we didn't have Internet, the Forum or YouTUBE, but I often ask myself now, why I didn't "see" what I see now. Youths "COULD" learn in record time to near absolute proficiency in record times to the point that only experience could bring growth down the line... but most don't because at that age, especially us guys, tend to be distracted, lacking discipline and the "juice" to pull thru.

... J-D.
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Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"

A Little Mental Health Warning:

Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.

I say it humorously, but I mean it.

Brian Spratt · From: Oklahoma, USA

I also played guitar for about 30 years prior to picking up the steel guitar in my early 40s. You can definitely do it. Like anything worth accomplishing, you'll have plenty of challenges and discouragement along the way. Just stick with it. Find some good instruction to work with. Paul Franklin is a master. If you can locate Jeff Newman's "Up From the Top: A and B pedal course" that one is excellent, as are his "Pedal Steel Guitar Techniques" and "Right Hand Alpha" courses.

David W.D. McCormick · From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada

I started a year ago at the age of 41, having not played music since I was a kid. It’s been an incredibly rewarding experience and the only real advice I would offer is to touch the instrument every single day.

This forum is a great resource!

I find it helpful to think of the instrument as best suited to harmonized 3rds and 6ths. If you learn the basic positions, and then the harmonized scales that take you between those positions, that’s a pretty solid foundation. Maybe start with strings 3&5 and 5&6. There’s lots of stuff on the internet that will show you harmonized scale positions.

Lots of working professionals will do zoom lessons. You can often reach out via instagram.

Otherwise I found the Paul Franklin essentials course very helpful although there is limited emphasis on physical technique. Paul pick blocks so that’s what I learned, but I could never get good tone or articulation with his finger/pick blocking. My playing improved dramatically once I did Jeff Newman’s right hand alpha course. His Up From The Top courses are fantastic too. Basically I am a Jeff Newman evangelist and am consuming everything I can find.

Pete McAvity · From: St. Louis, Missouri USA

Doable, if you want. Big learning curve, many many hours required. Rewarding and worth every bit of effort. The "takes two years to start sucking" statement is on point. Embrace the disappointment for those two years- you'll have plenty of little breakthroughs to sustain you. Anything worth doing takes effort. As previously recommended, shelf all the material you have and subscribe to The Paul Franklin Method. Start from the ground up and don't do what most of us did: try to take shortcuts (100 licks....) and embed bad bad habits that we have to spend even more time extinguishing from out minds and bodies.

You'll spend more time regretting it than it will to learn it if you go half measure. The PFM is the most comprehensive teaching system offered by the most recorded steel guitarist in history, and he is available via private FB page for any questions.

That is all.
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Ron Funk · From: Ballwin, Missouri

David -

Your original post stated you discovered 'a guy down the street played.'

Nothing ever beats one-on-one personal interaction with another steeler.

Every time I've done so, both of us have learned something from the other player....(including beneficial constructive criticisms).

If just beginning, I suggest spending smaller amounts of 'seat time' rather than longer periods of time.

Your 12-string E9th is a unique challenge - most E9th necks are 10 strings.

Best of luck with your journey.

Ron

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