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Topic: Emmons PP 8th string won't lower enough.... |
James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 7 Feb 2024 8:41 am |
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Yeah, I posted recently about my 4th-string not lowering enough and got it sorted with you guys' help. Everything was perfect until I played with a pianist. Then, I decided to try Equal Temperament tuning. Indeed, this sounds better with midi piano tracks. The issue is now that my 8th string isn't making contact with the lowering adjustment screw. The 4th string lower reaches it's screw first and stops the 8th from going any further.
The only fix I can see is to move the 8th string collar closer to the bell crank or adding a spring between the two, but it looks like it's going to be difficult to reach that collar set screw and adding a spring looks like I have to do far more work than I would think is necessary.
So, is it normal to have to go under the hood like this when changing tuning temperaments or string gauges?
Also, if it turns out I need to add a timing spring, I found this thread and it seems this would be much easier:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=389414&sid=bdb68344fcc1b4b0a7567a619661d21f
Is that a bad idea? Is loosening the collar where it pushes contacts the changer all it takes to free up that rod to get a spring on there?
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list.
Last edited by James Mayer on 7 Feb 2024 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2024 9:53 am
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If I remember right, if you change tuning you need to retune that changer on that string. If you were tuning to 440 and now you are tuning to let's say 435, your changer stop will be different.
_________________
2013 Williams D-10, 2019 Williams D-10, 1970 Fender Twin, Evans SE200, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Hilton pedal, Jagwire Strings. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 7 Feb 2024 10:12 am
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| Craig A Davidson wrote: |
| If I remember right, if you change tuning you need to retune that changer on that string. If you were tuning to 440 and now you are tuning to let's say 435, your changer stop will be different. |
Right, but I can only do so much at the changer. I can't tune the lower low enough because the "push" doesn't reach the adjustment screw. The 4th string lower reaches it's screw first which stops the 8th string from moving any lower.
For now, I've adjusted it so the 4th string lower to Eb is a little flat which allows the 8th string Eb to be a little less sharp. It's not too bad that way, but I can hear it.
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2024 10:19 am
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You just need to move your collar on your 8th string in, closer to changer so it can push it further. It should have a compression spring on it too.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 7 Feb 2024 10:49 am
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| You just need to move your collar on your 8th string in, closer to changer so it can push it further. It should have a compression spring on it too. |
Yeah, that's the conclusion I came to. It does have a spring on it, though it's very small at about 1/16".
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2024 1:17 pm
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Hi James,
I'd highly recommend Clem Schmitz's bargain-priced booklet "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar" to any Emmons push-pull owner. Clem used to own a steel guitar store and repair shop in Minneapolis, then one in Nashville, where he worked on Emmons push-pulls owned by players such as Mike Johnson.
The 24-page booklet shows how to make simple adjustments to an Emmons push-pull or even take the entire guitar apart and put it back together.
In his booklet, Clem explains step by step (with photos) exactly how to disassemble, re-assemble, and adjust push-pull guitars with several clever little tricks that would take a very long time to figure out--including a simple solution to setting the correct amount of slack on the 4th string in 5 seconds or less! (Just that tip alone is worth the bargain price of Clem's booklet & DVD!)
He sells the booklet and a DVD combo package on eBay listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar 83 METHODOLOGY P/P Book & 2008 2 DVD's Package" for just $21!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=Pedal+Steel+Guitar+83+METHODOLOGY+P%2FP+Book+%26+2008+2+DVD%27s+Package&_sacat=0
Highly recommended!
If Clem's material is no longer on eBay, try contacting him at freedomsauce(at)comcast(dot)net (replace the "at" with "@", and "dot" with ".")
Emmons push-pull guitars are very reliable and stable and I almost never need Clem's booklet, but it's great to have for the rare time every 10 years or so when some little Allen screw loosens up somewhere, or a string pitch change isn't happening the way it should and you have to leave for a gig in the next 30 minutes. 
Clem is a very helpful guy; I've heard that if you are really stuck, he will guide you through the fix via Skype for a very nominal fee.
- Dave |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 8 Feb 2024 8:35 am
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| Dave Magram wrote: |
Hi James,
I'd highly recommend Clem Schmitz's bargain-priced booklet "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar" to any Emmons push-pull owner. Clem used to own a steel guitar store and repair shop in Minneapolis, then one in Nashville, where he worked on Emmons push-pulls owned by players such as Mike Johnson.
The 24-page booklet shows how to make simple adjustments to an Emmons push-pull or even take the entire guitar apart and put it back together.
In his booklet, Clem explains step by step (with photos) exactly how to disassemble, re-assemble, and adjust push-pull guitars with several clever little tricks that would take a very long time to figure out--including a simple solution to setting the correct amount of slack on the 4th string in 5 seconds or less! (Just that tip alone is worth the bargain price of Clem's booklet & DVD!)
He sells the booklet and a DVD combo package on eBay listed as "Pedal Steel Guitar 83 METHODOLOGY P/P Book & 2008 2 DVD's Package" for just $21!
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=Pedal+Steel+Guitar+83+METHODOLOGY+P%2FP+Book+%26+2008+2+DVD%27s+Package&_sacat=0
Highly recommended!
If Clem's material is no longer on eBay, try contacting him at freedomsauce(at)comcast(dot)net (replace the "at" with "@", and "dot" with ".")
Emmons push-pull guitars are very reliable and stable and I almost never need Clem's booklet, but it's great to have for the rare time every 10 years or so when some little Allen screw loosens up somewhere, or a string pitch change isn't happening the way it should and you have to leave for a gig in the next 30 minutes.
Clem is a very helpful guy; I've heard that if you are really stuck, he will guide you through the fix via Skype for a very nominal fee.
- Dave |
Well....I don't have a DVD player. Haven't had one in many years. I'll write him and see if maybe he's updated to a digital download. Thanks for the suggestion.
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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Dave Meis
From:
Olympic Peninsula, Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2024 12:01 pm
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| Sounds like you need more slack on the raise collar...once it touches the the raise finger, it won't go any lower. Easy to see if you turn it upside down and watch the lower mechanism. If the raise rod collar touches the raise finger, add a little slack and retuned the changer. 🤔 |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 8 Feb 2024 2:25 pm
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| I have the book mentioned above , was invaluable when I was setting up my PP a few years ago . Highly recommended. |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2024 9:55 pm
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| James Mayer wrote: |
| Dave Magram wrote: |
Hi James,
I'd highly recommend Clem Schmitz's bargain-priced booklet & DVD: "Methodology And Practice In Pedal Steel Guitar" to any Emmons push-pull owner...
- Dave |
Well....I don't have a DVD player. Haven't had one in many years. I'll write him and see if maybe he's updated to a digital download. Thanks for the suggestion. |
James,
Many years ago, when I met Clem, only the booklet was available. I bought it, and it was very useful. (I think I paid $15 for it, and it was probably the best $15 I ever spent on steel guitar stuff.)
The first thing the booklet helped me with was Clem's very simple solution to the challenge of measuring the correct slack when lowering the 4th string to Eb. Up to that point, I was just guessing at it. That was worth the $15 right there!
The DVDs came out much later. I bought them just to have them around; never needed them though.
I believe Clem will just sell you just the booklet. He is very easy to do business with.
- Dave |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 9 Feb 2024 1:33 pm
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I just ordered the Clems book(s).
Indeed, He is easy to work with. He's putting the videos on a thumbdrive for me.
_________________
Modified Emmons GS-10 3X4 and too many iPad apps to list. |
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