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Topic: Talk me out of painting my formica black..... |
James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 2:32 pm |
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I have an Emmons student model in a light blue color. Besides being a color I'm generally not attracted to, as is, it would look a lot better doing black-out style videography if it was black, naturally. (https://youtu.be/Px7VZuYnZeI)
It's a beat up and heavily modified Emmons (not by me), so the ruining of it's mint vintage appeal has already happened. It sounds great and I'm not looking to buy another steel
here's it's current look:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/userpix1504/5906_steelmount_1.jpg |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 2:38 pm
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Don't paint your formica black.
How was that?
Nah -- I can see what you want and why. I'm just skeptical of the results of applying anything over the mica. I have no suggestions of how to go about. But maybe you've researched it and already know how you'd go about it? |
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Stu Schulman
From:
Ulster Park New Yawk (deceased)
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 2:47 pm
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I know guy who painted a Buick with a paint brush,It looked pretty cool,Maybe something to thing about for the Emmons?
_________________
Steeltronics Z-pickup,Desert Rose S-10 4+5,Desert Rose Keyless S-10 3+5... Mullen G2 S-10 3+5,Telonics 206 pickups,Telonics volume pedal.,Blanton SD -10,Emmons GS_10...Zirctone bar,Bill Groner Bar...any amp that isn't broken.Steel Seat.Com seats...Licking paint chips off of Chinese Toys since 1952. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 2:58 pm
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Do it, man. As you said, it's not mint or original anyway, and even though a GS is cool... it's not a push-pull or anything people collect. Going to black is probably even going to up its resale value (not that you're selling, but...).
One option: instead of paint, you can put adhesive vinyl auto wrap on it and it will look like mica or an airbrush type finish or whatever you want. Do a search here and you'll find threads where people have done it, or had an auto shop do it. I think you can even peel it off later and return the guitar to puke blue -- if somebody got all vintage-y about it.
Check out the picture of a black Emmons student model on page 2 of this thread:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=209170&postdays=0&postorder=asc
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Last edited by Tucker Jackson on 14 Apr 2021 3:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 3:21 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
Do it, man. As you said, it's not mint or original anyway, and even though a GS is cool... it's not a push-pull or anything people collect. Going to black is probably even going to up its resale value (not that you're selling, but...).
One option: instead of paint, you can put adhesive vinyl auto wrap on it and it will look like mica or an airbrush type finish or whatever you want. Do a search here and you'll find threads where people have done it. I think you can even peel it off later and return the guitar to puke blue -- if somebody got all vintage-y about it.
Check out the picture of a black Emmons student model on page 2 of this thread:
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=209170&postdays=0&postorder=asc
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Yeah, that looks really sweet. I did find info here about the vinyl wraps but am not keen on taking the steel apart and I can't get the corner guards off anyway. Someone added those at some point, (see the photo I referenced) so even if I wanted to take off the neck and tuners, to wrap it, I'd be dealing with those. They are solidly glued and might take pieces of the formica with it if I try to remove them.
I don't expect painting it will look as good as vinyl wrap, but it'll look better than it does now.
Last edited by James Mayer on 14 Apr 2021 3:31 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 3:34 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
| ...even though a GS is cool... it's not a push-pull or anything people collect |
Correction: The Emmons GS-10 student model is indeed a push-pull. How many does one need to have to qualify as a collector? I have two, and I'd likely get another if the price was right.
Personally, I would discourage painting it, but the owner can do whatever he wants -- after all, it's his! The vinyl auto-wrap idea would be a much better alternative IMHO. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 3:38 pm
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Yeah, that paint might do the trick.
If it ends up looking goofy, you can still wrap. An auto shop can probably do it without having to remove everything -- well, the keyhead would have to come off since it's hard to get under those tuners with it on. But those come off pretty easily. You would probably have to remove the tone control plate too. But I bet they could just cut it carefully and work around the neck and those trim pieces you can't get off. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 3:44 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
Correction: The Emmons GS-10 student model is indeed a push-pull. How many does one need to have to qualify as a collector? I have two, and I'd likely get another if the price was right. |
Duly noted. I should have specified 'Emmons Original push-pull.' And two-and-looking-for-more makes you a collector, so I stand corrected: they are collectibles. I get why they are, but you're the first person I've heard of that has a stable.
Do you have a black GS you would be willing to trade for James' rare blue one?  |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 3:50 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
Do you have a black GS you would be willing to trade for James' rare blue one? |
This is a legitimate question. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 3:52 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
Yeah, that paint might do the trick.
If it ends up looking goofy, you can still wrap. An auto shop can probably do it without having to remove everything -- well, the keyhead would have to come off since it's hard to get under those tuners with it on. But those come off pretty easily. You would probably have to remove the tone control plate too. |
And the metal neck that someone added. |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 4:04 pm
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| I think they can cut it around the neck -- they have to do more complicated things all the time. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 4:04 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
Do you have a black GS you would be willing to trade for James' rare blue one? |
Nope. One's a common bowlin' ball 'mica, and the other's a fairly attractive sunburst lacquer. I dig the blue 'mica Emmons guitars, but it's hard to tell from the photo whether it's one of those bright sky-blue ones, or the faded denim. I'm hip that my opinion flies in the face of the popular consensus, and will likely elicit a fair amount of scorn, but personally, I'm not all that crazy about black 'mica guitars. But when push comes to shove, appearance is only a minor consideration to me. |
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James Sission
From:
Sugar Land,Texas USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 4:09 pm
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| Use a sheet of wrap, like they wrap on cars. I've seen several guitars with wrap and they look good. |
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Ken Mizell
From:
Lakeland, Florida, 33809, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 4:10 pm
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I'd for for a wrap myself. A friend of mine has a Zum that has a disgusting purple front apron, yet the rest was black. All he had to do is wrap the front apron black, and put on a new ZumSteel decal. You can't tell that it isn't black mica.
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Steeless. |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 5:13 pm
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Personally, I'd rather have a sonic/daphne blue guitar any day over a black one. I also think that particular blue is pretty striking against the black background. Black would just, basically, disappear with the exception of the chromed stuff and the figures on the fingerboard. I guess if that's what you're going for. Or are you planning to paint over the chrome too? That sounds even worse to me. Of course, these are all matters of personal taste, and there's no accounting for taste. But all this sets my bias.
Even without all that, I would not do a brush painting on a guitar like this. I've seen people do amateurish paint jobs on guitars, and it seems to me that they almost always turn out badly. I cringe when I see guitars like that, and I've seen plenty (ran a guitar shop back in the 90s). Beyond that, would the paint hold, or flake off? And what kind of paint, if any, would hold and look good? Would roughing the surface be required, or would that even work? And what if you do rough it up, paint it, and it doesn't hold - you now have a real mess. And - how are your painting chops? Are you skilled enough so you're not slopping paint on the trim, neck, and so on? And if not, do you know someone who knows enough to do it right, and how much would it cost? These are all issues to be considered when refinishing a guitar.
Seems to me to be opening up Pandora's box. The wrap idea seems better to me if you really want to change the color. I would think - better potential outcome, and I'm not sure why it would be so much harder for someone who knows what they're doing to get a good result without tearing the whole guitar apart. But maybe not - I confess I haven't had one done. But I see all kinds of stuff wrapped, and I doubt they had to disassemble everything around the wrap to make it work.
I'm sure I could find other reasons to rethink this, but I'll leave that for someone else.
You did ask us to talk you out of it.  |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 6:09 pm
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Paint it if you want to. In my years as a painter I painted just about everything inside and outside of a house. You CAN paint Formica. It’ll stick if you do it right.
Take the shine off with 220 or 320 sandpaper. Prime it with Zinsser BIN. Clean your brush by wetting it completely with ammonia, then it’ll wash with soap and water. You can, and should, get it tinted. You can use up to 2 oz./gallon (or 1/2 oz/quart). Telll them at the paint store that you want it tinted with black. If they don’t know what you’re talking about you’re at the wrong place. The max will give you a gray that will be easier to cover.
You can topcoat it with pretty much anything. I’d probably use a spray can. |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 14 Apr 2021 6:13 pm
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| I just re-read the title to this thread, so... um, don’t do it. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 5:03 am
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Even if that painting method with the undercoat is 100% excellent for adhesion, note that the intention there is to surface it, marbleize it with a faux finish. It is the only way I can imagine not worrying about the surface appearance. That -- brush strokes or roller overlaps and uneven textural nap -- are what make a homemade treatment look like a homemade treatment. At the very least, I'd be looking for a spray treatment.
This-all is my only 'objection' to any of this. Wanting it to turn out looking good and hating when you realize that there's more to this than just enthusiasm and confidence (been there.....)
I'm rooting for you to get this looking great and how you want it.
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Bill Terry
From:
Bastrop, TX
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 5:47 am
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| Dave wrote: |
| Personally, I'd rather have a sonic/daphne blue guitar any day over a black one. |
Even though it's a well known fact that black guitars sound better??? 
I know it's true because I read it here on the forum.
_________________
Lost Pines Studio
"I'm nuts about bolts" |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 7:07 am
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Ok, I'm backing off the painting in looking into the wrap alternative. I'm hoping they can make it come out matte/charcoal.
Or....does sharpie stick to formica?  |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 7:11 am
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
| I dig the blue 'mica Emmons guitars, but it's hard to tell from the photo whether it's one of those bright sky-blue ones, or the faded denim. |
I just looked at the faded denim that some Emmons have. That's close to the color of mine, but mine doesn't have that textured look. It's a solid sky blue with no pattern.
This looks like mine until you look close enough to see the textured pattern.
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=311795&highlight=denim
Last edited by James Mayer on 15 Apr 2021 7:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ken Mizell
From:
Lakeland, Florida, 33809, USA
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 7:11 am
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| James Mayer wrote: |
Ok, I'm backing off the painting in looking into the wrap alternative. I'm hoping they can make it come out matte/charcoal.
Or....does sharpie stick to formica? |
I've seen charcoal/matt looking wrap on vehicles. You can probably get that done.
_________________
Steeless. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 7:16 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| Black would just, basically, disappear with the exception of the chromed stuff and the figures on the fingerboard. I guess if that's what you're going for. |
Yep, only the chrome would show up, pretty much just like your profile photo. |
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James Mayer
From:
back in Portland Oregon, USA (via Arkansas and London, UK)
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Posted 15 Apr 2021 7:49 am
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| the first place I called quoted $200. That's a lot more expensive than a pack of sharpies. |
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