Renamed: Losing the C pedal (second thoughts)

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I have freed up my C pedal (I'm 'Day', so that's pedal 1) by assigning the 4th string raise to F# to my LKV. I love it there. There are lots of applications, it seems, for those days when shifting from 2-and-3 to 1-and-2 is a bit much. Smile

I have two rods on my first pedal: will the so-called Franklin pedal lowering 5-and-6 work in that position (it'd be next to the B pedal)? (I already lower 10 on RKR.)

My pedal 4 lowers 9 and 6. That's now unofficially the Beavers Pedal - I love it for a m7b5 or a 4-9th chord.

Any suggestions carefully considered. Thank you.

New post re: my 'second thoughts'.... see below.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

I used to raise 5 and 6 a whole step on my 3rd pedal, and I liked it. It's easy to move the pullers over from 4 and 5.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

On a uni, that's B6 P7. I have found it useful in the E9 tuning also.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

That's a good suggestion, Doug. I'm not sold on the FP anyway (and it would mess up my precious B-to-Bb RKL which counts on the split-tune screw being brought into action).

I initially wanted to raise 4 and 6 a tone on that LKV, but I didn't have the rods I thought I had. Sad

At first, I had the 6th raising to A# on that LKV but sacrificed it for a more saccharine change; raising 5 to a D.

Now, that LKV raises E to F#; that alone is really promising. How would it work raising 5+6 as you describe and engaging the E to F# raise on 4?

I need to do some retuning to find out....

Thanks, guys.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Another big 'plus', as I see it, is that, with raising 4 on LKV, it's much more user-friendly playing those maj 7/maj 9s off the 9th string root (9,6,5,4) without having to move my foot across to Ps 1 and 2.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Steve Lipsey · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

I got that E-F# LKV idea from b0b...it is a great alt-country change...I->IV->IIm and back again, or V->I->IVm... and a nice flourish to do open->A+B->A+B+LKV->A+B->open....and many steels don't raise s8 with C-pedal, so instead of just using s7 this gives a little character to a low F#...
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Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

the A# & C# raise on 5 & 6 puts you into a nice F# major universe..
With Es lowed, its F#6 and with the F lever- if you can swing it physically, its F#maj7 with a lot of semitone rubs. Great sounds. Your F# up lever would fit in perfectly.
Very pretty with Es lowered, like pedal 7 on C6. Very useful over string 9 for #11 sounds..Bmin(ma7)..all kinds of good stuff. Even gives F#7#9 with the B pedal. What's not to like? Smile

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I renamed this thread as the FP is probably off the table.

I think I'm enjoying raising the 4th on LKV because, due to my short legs and the fact that I like to sit to the right of my guitar, I have never pivoted my left foot from the heel. Changing from 2 & 3 to 1& 2 always requires moving my whole foot.

Andrew:
Quite right - F# and then some! Lowering 9 B pedal down is a nice 1 add 9: raise 4 to get the 6th.

Any more ideas ( even if it's looking like raising 5 and 6 will win the day)?
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

I will be following this topic closely. I've had that 4th string raise on my LKV since forever – not my idea, it was there when I bought my first real steel – and I would not know what to do without it. Being able to kick that raise in with A+B down without moving your foot is great. Came in really handy trying to copy some of Weldon's licks on Moe Bandy's albums back then.

On that same steel, I had the B>Bb change on LKV number two, which was nearly impossible to engage without being a contortionist, so I ditched that change... Maybe I'll try that on the C pedal, which I hardly ever felt a need to use. Or something else you guys come up with,

But Roger, isn't sitting "to the right of" your guitar a bit awkward? Whoa!

So far away from all the action... Much better behind the guitar... Laughing

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Per:

Good point! 'Behind the guitar'?? Now I'll make faster progress! Smile

I always found pick-attack was better if I sat beyond the standard '15th fret rule' (parentheses intended); it also cures my old habit of allowing my elbow to stray outwards.

I have taken the plunge and added the 5/6 raise (to C#/A#) and, already, it's paying dividends.

With the Es lowered, my new C pedal (#1) gives me the same as pedal 7 on C6 (you universal guys probably know that already, but I still have my D at the 9th Smile

)

After 30 minutes playing, it's already proving itself to be far more useful than the old C pedal which, of course, I still have with A/B and LKV.

Per:
Postscript: I can't agree with you re: B to Bb. I have that on RKL and use it as much as any change on E9. But, then, we all have different musical priorities.

PPS: Junior Mercer has just done a wonderful job on my guitar and set it up as per my earlier requirements. I have been very careful to keep things clean and tidy underneath; all rods pull straight and nothing's chafing. I also got my C6th RKR to raise the As to B!!! That freed up pedal 4 and, as I was doing the E9 changes, I also made P4 a 'reverse P6'. I'm delighted that all changes work flawlessly and my level of tech-ing rose slightly above 'butchery'. Smile

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Per Berner · From: Skovde, Sweden

Roger: Concerning the B>Bb change, I only dropped it because the lever was impossible to reach (short legs? check), positioned way too far to the right. So I took it off after just a month or two, before getting acquainted with the change... My previous axe was a pull-release beginner's steel, so I knew even less then than I know now – I was overwhelmed by suddenly having six knee levers instead of one, so losing one that was impossible to use didn't seem to matter much. Embarassed

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

This is how things look now:

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Here is an older, related, discussion:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=157308&sid=8ff4dcc0ef692b41d7d6d4e2890368e8

I agree with Donny Hinson's comment.

~Lee

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Lee

Lots of conflicting opinions - as it should be. I'm more interested in playing outside that familiar E9th territory with some pop-orientated changes. It's for that reason that I have my 10th string A pedal 'raise' cancelled out by my RKR (bringing it back down to a B for a 4/5 chord).

I must stress that I never, not even for a moment, thought: 'I'm brilliant; what a brainwave!' Of course it's been done before - everything has. I just found an alternative that suits what I need from the tuning. The 5/6 raise has opened several doors, as I can already see.

I'm reminded that Buddy Emmons once stated that he 'never used the C pedal'. I recall thinking that, if he accomplished what he did on E9 without it, it deserved some thought.
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Per:
I understand: I wanted B-to-Bb easily available - and 'split' with the A pedal - hence its position on RKL. Tommy White, just to name one virtuoso player, has it there while the highly-accomplished Travis Toy actually has it on a floor-pedal. He makes a compelling argument for it, too, and has no lack of chord-voicings at his disposal so evidently there are other valid options.

As things stand, I'm very happy with these changes. I'm going to have to move my LKL2 further inside the steel; I'm catching it when engaging the LKV, but that's a detail.

Thanks for the responses, both 'for' and 'against'. Smile

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Chris Templeton · From: The Green Mountain State

A slack string tuning allows for getting a major 3rd bend.
It might have been the 4th string "E" I tuned down a note or two or was changing the strings and they were slack, the pedal throw is a lot less than for a tuned string that's been brought up to tension and easier to get that bend. A good time to try it is when you're changing strings.
A cool and unique steel sound for recording.
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Tim Harr · From: Dunlap, Illinois

I have no reason to change my pedal setup. My current setup does everything I need.
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Chris Templeton · From: The Green Mountain State

This is not something I added to my setup, due to possible string breackage. A unique pedal steel sound. Maybe add it with another change.
Again, doing the change with slacker strings makes the change easily work.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Here's a bonus:

My P1 and my B pedal, strings 7,6,5,4,3 give me an F#7/#9.

Coming back to it today, I still like it! I will concede that on-and-off the old B and C pedals can't be executed briskly, but I never did that much anyway.

So far, so good.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

That's a great feature of the pedal steel guitar.

Set it up to do what you need it to do, to play what is in your head, not what's in someone else's head!

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

That's how I feel, Lee, but I always remind myself that it was what was 'in someone else's head' that first drew me to play the thing.

Today's a bad day, playing-wise, and the 'essential tremors' don't seem to like this cold-front passing over Florida, but it doesn't stop me exploring the potential of this change.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Steve Leal · From: Orange CA, USA

Hi Roger,

Another change you could try that would work great with your setup is if your pedal 1 just raised D to D#. This would have a few great uses.

1. Activated by itself would give you a good 1 major 7th chord in the lower register.

2. Activated along with lowering your Es would give you a strumable B6th chord for swing stuff. Then release both for strumable 4 7th chord.

3. Activated along with pedal 2 (raising G#s) gives you a B7th chord with a 4th scale note across all strings. Very cool sounding!

Have fun! Stephen

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Actually, Stephen, I'd like to raise 2 and 9, but on a separate lever (which I don't have).

I can't take off the 4th (E to F#) because, along with A & B, that's my 'new C pedal'. I may not have used the C much in the traditional way (Hughey/Rugg/Weldon), but I did use it with the 9th root, then lowering 9. I can't be without that E to F#.

Good thought, though: I have long wondered about raising 9.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Stephen: a PS.....

It's occurred to me that I could put that 9-and-2 raise on Pedal 8 (or P7, as 8 already has four C6th pulls). Handy for the right foot, and I lose no options.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Steve Leal · From: Orange CA, USA

Hi Roger,

I meant that you could replace your current pedal 1 configuration to just raise string 9 a half step to D#. I understand that you want to keep the rest as is. Great setup.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

That could work - thanks!
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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