E9 Tuning for Fender 400

Jeremy Nivison · From: Utah, USA

I just picked up an 8 String, 4 pedal Fender 400 and would like to find something of a 'standard' E9 tuning/copedent for it. Any suggestions? I've never touched one of these things and I'm a little overwhelmed with the different setups. Being a guitar and bass player it's always been EADGCBE for me!

Thank you!

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Dear Jeremy - If you have never played E9th before, then I suggest learning E9th with low to high: B - D - E - F# - G# - B - E - G#; This is the standard E9th tuning without the top two strings. For the pedals you will want the A pedal (B's to C#); B pedal (G#'s to A) and E flat (lower your Es to Eb); then you either want a C pedal or raise the E's to F;

For strings you would buy a standard 10 string set, and just leave off the top two strings.

That's a decent way to get started with only 8 strings. Eventually you outgrow that and you will want to get a 10 string guitar.

The other way to consider is to have the top 8 strings and leave off the two bottom strings, with the pedal changes as already described, but those two top strings, the so called 'chromatic strings' are very counter intuitive and it helps to learn the bottom 8 strings first, if you only have an 8 string guitar.

Any guitar sounds great in the hands of a master. You can start with your purchase and make lots of music before you outgrow that configuration.
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Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Depending on the model of 400 you may encounter breakage on the first string G#. Original long scale Fenders were designed for A6 tuning. Around 1963 they were redesigned with 23” scale. They are a strange beast and one has to love them, as I do, because this can lead to frustration. Facebook has a page devoted to them with much valuable info and doing a Google search will yield many discussions here which will impart knowledge you will need.
Best of luck.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Michael Sawyer · From: North Carolina, USA

Good advice from Richard and Kevin.
I play the higher 8 of the tuning,but i added knee levers.
Without knees go with lower 8 IMO.
Have fun with it

Tucker Jackson · From: Portland, Oregon, USA

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

You may get a confusing number of opinions on a copedent. If you have never touched a pedal Steel before, I suggest that you use that lower tuning without the top chromatic strings, and raise your Es-F, with the first pedal, raise your Bs-C# with the second pedal (normally the “A” pedal on Conventional E9 set up), raise your G to G# to with 3rd pedal and lower Es to Eb with the fourth pedal. Those outside pedals are normally put on knee levers, but they are used mostly in conjunction with the A&B pedals. You can get a basic 145 change with that set up. Using the first two pedals you get a 6 major so you can do some really interesting slides with that. Example: Using just the A pedal you would have a C# minor in open position but if you add the F change on first pedal, then that turns it into a major. So it’s just one way to get basic changes and some interesting things. You’ll never play “modern” steel guitar parts with it , but you should be able to use some of the knowledge in beginner instruction courses. If you want to just venture out on your own you can play a lot of good music on those four pedals. For some things you may have to use both feet and forget the volume pedal.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Mark Perrodin · From: Tucson Arizona, USA

good advice from kmaul. as an aside there is an instructional video by al brisco that shows how to play a long scale 400 set up to E9. might be hard to find now that al retired but it is worth tracking down.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

I still play a long-scale 400 and I just tune it down a full tone, the same as I did with my old long-scale 1000 that I played for about 8 years. My tuning is a straight “D” with the chromatics on top, with P4 lowering 5&10. That let me play almost anything country that came out in the 1960’s, which was my focus back when I started. Cool

Tim Toberer · From: Nebraska, USA

I am not an authority in any way, but I am interested in setting up an 8 string in an E9 tuning at some point. I like the suggestions mentioned, which are pretty close to Ralph Mooney's copedant. Have a look at this if you already haven't
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=396469&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Another way to set it up would be more like the Universal tuning which has the benefit of creating a full A6 tuning with the A and B pedals down, and if you lower the Es to D# you have a full B6. I really like this option because I am more familiar with A6 and C6.
Strings 4-11 of this http://www.larrybell.org/id23.htm

Here is another completely unique approach, but you need 5 more pedals! http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/basilPsg8StrTuning.pdf
http://www.waikiki-islanders.com/assets/basilPsg8StrTuning.pdf

I love 8 string pedal steel, 8 are enough! Good luck and keep us informed of your progress!

K Maul · From: Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL

Not to mention Sneaky Pete. B6 - easily yielding E9 A6 B7 C#minor. I’ve said too much already - haha!

_________________
KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.

Richard Alderson · From: Illinois, USA

Thanks Tucker, now corrected.
_________________
Derby SD-10 5x6; GFI S-10 5x5; GFI S-10 5x5; Zum D-10 8x7; Zum D-10 9x9; Fender 400; Fender Rumble 200; Nashville 400; Telonics TCA-500.

Jeremy Nivison · From: Utah, USA

Wow. What an awesome community. Thank you all for the incredibly helpful information. I've got a great place to start. Am I wrong in thinking this is going to take me a decade or so to figure the damn thing out? I just turned 50 and this stuff doesn't come as quick as it used to!

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Learning to play pedal steel requires a big commitment on the player's part . It is hard , and takes a lot of time . Period ! The good part is that there are some very easy , nice sounding things you can be doing within a few minutes of starting .
There is a mountain of instructional material for E9 pedal steel , though it is for 10 strings . A lot of it can be played on 8 strings , I would go with the bottom 8 . Low B to high G# . Think you are best off going with the most popular tuning where there is lots of instructional material .

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