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Topic: Lubrication routines? |
Barry Anderson
From:
Nevada City, California, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2023 10:40 am |
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Hey there. I tend to give my changer a spray of teflon lube in between sets of strings, and will usually apply a light bit of tri-flow to the rollers, but that's about where it ends.
Recently, while looking at the rather dirty undercarriage of my '73 Sho-Bud, I began to wonder if I should also be lubing up the various moving parts under there (obviously not the barrels). Which then also got me thinking about disassembly and thorough cleaning. But, then again, if it ain't broke...
So here I come, hat in hand, wondering if anyone has any general advice/wisdom on a lubrication schedule for the rest of the guitar.
Thanks in advance. |
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Chris Brooks
From:
Providence, Rhode Island
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Posted 22 Nov 2023 12:17 pm
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| I'll be interested in responses too, Barry. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
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Posted 22 Nov 2023 7:47 pm
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I oil my steel, basically all moving parts, about once a year. I play a Zum, so I ask Bruce Zumsteg a similar question. He said that players have brought him steels that had been gigged hard on the road for 25 years and all they needed was just a little oil and minor adjustments to be playing like new again. He also told me that automatic transmission fluid or 3 in 1 oil was good to use.
Mitch |
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Ken Metcalf
From:
San Antonio Texas USA
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Posted 23 Nov 2023 4:36 am
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| Mitch Ellis wrote: |
I oil my steel, basically all moving parts, about once a year.
Mitch |
I lube my MSA Studio pros once a year very lightly around christmas with Tri-Flow.
_________________
MSA 12 String E9th/B6th Universal.
Little Walter PF-89.
Bunch of stomp boxes |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Barry Anderson
From:
Nevada City, California, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2023 10:27 am
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| Thanks for the responses! Much appreciated |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 27 Nov 2023 4:14 pm
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Late reply - I lube ALL moving parts (after flushing all oil out if there was any used - using naphtha.
I use nothing but oil-free Teflon lube. You have to be careful buying Tri-Flo, as there's an oil type and oil free - and the labels are VERY similar!
_________________
No chops, but great tone
1930's/40's Rickenbacher/Rickenbacker 6&8 string lap steels
1921 Weissenborn Style 2; Hilo&Schireson hollownecks
Appalachian, Regal & Dobro squarenecks
1959 Fender 400 9+2 B6;1960's Fender 800 3+3+2; 1948 Fender Dual-8 Professional |
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 27 Nov 2023 4:19 pm
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Charlie Stepp of Derby Steel guitars used and recommended Gunk Super Oil light for lubing of changer etc. every 6 mos. to one year.
Mullen site guitar tips button offers good tips for string changing, oiling and maintenancing your guitar:
https://mullenguitars.com/guitar-tips/
This page from the old Carter site also has some info:
https://steelguitar.com/lubricate.html |
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Dave Magram
From:
San Jose, California, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2023 8:32 am
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| Jim Sliff wrote: |
| I use nothing but oil-free Teflon lube. You have to be careful buying Tri-Flo, as there's an oil type and oil free - and the labels are VERY similar! |
Jim,
Please help us understand which Tri-Flow lubricant you are claiming to be “oil free”, based on the manufacturer's descriptions below…
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https://www.triflowlubricants.com/product/tri-flow-superior-lubricant-drip-bottle/
Tri-Flow® Superior Lubricant is the superior, light viscosity lube that allows for deep penetration into hard to reach moving parts. The drip bottle application, with a convenient straw, allows for deep penetration in hard to reach moving parts. High-grade petroleum oils provide optimum lubrication under extreme temperatures (-60 to 475°F) and humidity. Formulated solvents soften and remove dirt and contaminants, while special additives displace moisture and prevent rust and corrosion. Formulated with P.T.F.E.
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https://www.triflowlubricants.com/product/tri-flow-superior-dry-lubricant/
Tri-Flow® Superior Dry Lubricant is an elite formula created for dry and dusty conditions. The drip bottle application, with a convenient straw, allows for deep penetration in hard to reach moving parts. Featuring paraffin wax and high-grade petroleum oil to allow the lube to go on wet, but then set up in a dry, ‘wax-like’ film so it will not attract or absorb grit and grime. Perfect for dry, dirty, dusty conditions, while still providing adequate wet weather performance. Holds up to extreme pressures and resists water wash-off. Provides incredible efficiency without attracting an excessive amount of contaminants.
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NOTE TO NEWER SGF MEMBERS: Both of the Tri-Flow lubricants shown above go on wet and leave a dry film.
● However, the Tri-Flow lubricant widely recommended for lubricating a modern pedal steel guitar with roller nuts is the Tri-Flow® Superior Lubricant (marked with a green star above).
● But because the Tri-Flow® Superior Dry Lubricant (designed for lubricating bicycle chains) contains paraffin wax and leaves a ‘wax-like’ film that is guaranteed to gum up the roller nuts and cause your strings to go out of tune, it is NOT recommended for modern pedal steel guitars with roller nuts (marked with a red X above).
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Jim, as you can see, according to the manufacturer, both lubricants contain “high-grade petroleum oil”—so what Tri-Flow lubricant are you claiming is “oil free”?
- Dave
Last edited by Dave Magram on 28 Nov 2023 10:40 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2023 8:48 am
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Yes STOP using "Tri-flow" or "Teflon" as I have seen those oils many years later and they are CRAP and I have to take the whole guitar apart and clean all the crap and stiffness those oils contracted.
Like BRUCE Z. We use 3&1 oil OR sewing machine oil; OR Gun OIL .....PERIOD; and if you use them; then you send to us for adjustment; we DON'T have to take it apart 20 years later; only drop a bead here and there and tune up and your good to go.
All you oil freaks; don't argue unless you have taken apart over 100 Steels like me and Bruce have.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2023 11:57 am
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Wow Ricky: First time I've heard that! Its' scary for me since watching any sci-fi disaster movie teaches us that nothing should scare us more than an enraged expert. 10 years ago, without any disassembly, I rinsed the 3 in 1 and accumulated gunk out of my changers with naptha. I have been using Tri-Flow (no paraffin) since. I was always under the impression that the liquid carrier totally evaporated, leaving no residue except the teflon particles.
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 28 Nov 2023 1:19 pm
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I've seen all kinds of oils turn to gunk after many years of use after they accumulate dust and dirt from their surrounding. The Tri-Flow I use is just PTFE (Teflon) in a light oil base carrier and I've used in on older Sho-Buds, one for 12 years, with no gunk formation. We also use it in our tool room and shop along with about 100 other types of oils and specialty lubricants depending on the application.
I've never used a slicker or better lubricant than Tri-Flow but any good lubricant will do the job for a long time. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Dan Kelly
From:
Boston, MA
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Posted 28 Nov 2023 3:48 pm
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I saw the implication in Jim's and Glenn's previous posts that if you started with oil and go to Tri-Flow, naptha is required to remove the oil thoroughly first. Is this correct?
_________________
blah, blah, blah.
Hey You Kids! Get Off My Lawn!
blah, blah, blah. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 4:54 am
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| We buy Kroil by the quarts here. Excellent stuff. There are lubrication camps in my shop where each group of machinists and machine operators refuses to use anyone else's products so we end up buying a lot of unique products to keep everyone happy. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 5:11 am
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_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 7:35 am
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| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
| We buy Kroil by the quarts here. Excellent stuff. There are lubrication camps in my shop where each group of machinists and machine operators refuses to use anyone else's products so we end up buying a lot of unique products to keep everyone happy. |
It finally came to the point where I worked, where the Head Millwright had to start keeping it under lock and key, as it was being carted off with regularity. I ran my own department there so had access to everything. SO if YOU had any Kroil in your department as I did in mine, I locked it up too, and didn't advertise that I even had it. That would be the kiss of death.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 29 Nov 2023 8:57 am
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I work/worked with many best Machinist on planet and every one of them used to yell at me: "ricky, Stop using oil; when metal fits and moves together perfectly; you don't NEED OIL at all; that just eventually gums it up, no matter what oil you use EVER".(all oil attracts dust particles; some less; some more.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Steve Rosko
From:
Georgetown, Texas
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Posted 30 Nov 2023 7:01 am
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I took note of Glenn’s post regarding flushing the changer without disassembly. I have an ‘84 PP D10. I doubt it’s ever been disassembled, or at least it’s been a very very long time. I’ve often wondered how differently it might play if it were cleaned up. On the other hand, I play regularly in a band. Taking it completely apart is something that would take me a long time. Is flushing the changer without disassembly really an option?
_________________
84 Emmons D10 PP, MSA D10, Goodrich Omni, Little Walter PF89, PF-350 cabs, BlueSky, BJS |
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Steve Rosko
From:
Georgetown, Texas
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Posted 30 Nov 2023 7:04 am
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I took note of Glenn’s post regarding flushing the changer without disassembly. I have an ‘84 PP D10. I doubt it’s ever been disassembled, or at least it’s been a very very long time. I’ve often wondered how differently it might play if it were cleaned up. On the other hand, I play regularly in a band. Taking it completely apart is something that would take me a long time. Is flushing the changer without disassembly really an option?
_________________
84 Emmons D10 PP, MSA D10, Goodrich Omni, Little Walter PF89, PF-350 cabs, BlueSky, BJS |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 30 Nov 2023 7:15 am
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| Steve Rosko wrote: |
| .....Is flushing the changer without disassembly really an option? |
Yes. I've never disassembled a changer (yet) and I do not suggest that flushing comes close to being as effective but I have addressed sluggish action in an old gummed up guitar by applying naphtha with a plastic squeeze bottle with a long applicator. Outdoors with a plastic drop cloth underneath, I've squirted from the top side and from the underside (upside down on a table with plastic underneath).
My results were not spectacular and left me knowing that the guitar would need a tear down, down the line, but for the time being it made the difference between a playable guitar vs a basket case. |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 30 Nov 2023 1:08 pm
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Yeah, mine never got bad enough to worry about, but I figured periodic prophylactic flushings can't hurt. I flushed it first about 10 years after I got it, from both top and bottom. A lot of black stuff (old aluminum I suppose) came out. I kept flushing and blowing with compressed air until only clean naptha came out. I did it again maybe 5 years later, and there was very little black stuff that time. I'll do it again next summer. I figure I won't give whatever lube I use enough time to gum up...
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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Steve Rosko
From:
Georgetown, Texas
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Posted 2 Dec 2023 6:58 am
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How hard was it to keep the solvent off the guitars finish?
_________________
84 Emmons D10 PP, MSA D10, Goodrich Omni, Little Walter PF89, PF-350 cabs, BlueSky, BJS |
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Glenn Demichele
From:
(20mi N of) Chicago Illinois, USA
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Posted 2 Dec 2023 7:12 am
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Actually pretty easy. In both directions, the solvent went straight through the changer into a towel without getting any on either the topside or bottomside finishes.
Me blowing air made a little mist, but the naptha (lighter fluid) didn't seem to attack the top (mica) or bottom (sealed wood), and I wiped it off right away.
_________________
Franklin D10 8&5, Excel D10 8&5. Both amazing guitars! Homemade buffer/overdrive with adjustable 700Hz "Fender" scoop., Moyo pedal, GT-001 effects, 2x TDA7294 80W class AB amps, or 2x BAM200 for stereo. TT12 and BW1501 each in its own closed back wedge. Also NV400 etc. etc... |
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