Mullen Nylon Nut adjustment

Terry Skaggs · From: Colorado, USA

Tuning my Mullen Discovery I noticed that the E lower for the 4th string nylon nut doesnt look like the others...more of the screw showing.....it tunes ok and returns but something looks wrong.
I tightened nut until spacer made contact and backed of three full turns per owners manual but still looks strange. Any ideas? Thanks Terry

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Beard E-model, Martin D-28 CW, Mullen Discovery, Kemper Profiler,Bose L1 Compact

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Is the nylon tuning nut and the spacer the same length as all the others?

If so, does the pull rod appear the same length?

It's no big deal. Sometimes the position of the rod in the bellcrank, the degree of tuning and the linkage adjustment, the tuning nut has to be screwed on further.

I read back in your history and it appears you bought the guitar new so this does seem a little odd for Mullen but again it's no big deal long as it tunes up and operates as designed.

If you have any real concerns, alert Mike concerning the post here so he can have a look and offer the definitive answer.

Terry Skaggs · From: Colorado, USA

Thanks for the help Jerry, the spacer and nylon nut seem to be the same lengths as the others, same with the pull rod....Yep bought it new from Mike and love it. I reached out to Mike and
he gave me the instructions for adjusting it. I did his instructions, thats when I noticed how far out the screw sticks out. I dont remember it looking like this when I bought it so
was concerned I had misadjusted it.
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Beard E-model, Martin D-28 CW, Mullen Discovery, Kemper Profiler,Bose L1 Compact

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

So, you haven't changed anything on it and it tunes up OK? If it appears different than before you may have it overtuned. Check out the sticky post on overtuning at the top of the Pedal Steel section, else look for something out of whack from the changer to the cross shaft and bell crank on both 4 and 8 strings.

Jon Voth · From: Virginia, USA

Looking at the bottom it is overtuned. Mine looked like that when I tried to split tune 4th string pedal whole tone raise with LKR half step lower. I need to figure out how to make that work but when those aren't aligned at rest then something is wrong.

You should get a more coherent answer soon.

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

One quick way to check for overtuning, is too back off the tuning nut with the string ringing and see if the string pitch raises just from that action.

If that's your issue, then I still refer to Jon's excellent info on the topic mentioned earlier.

Jim Bloomfield · From: Colorado, USA

Hey Terry, where are you in Colorado? This can be fixed by putting the rod in a different hole in the changer and/ or the bell crank. It will change the feel of the pull though. Or perhaps the knee lever stop screw can be adjusted. My Discovery has the rod for 4th string lower in the same hole as yours on the changer end and in the last hole (closest to the floor) on the bell crank. So it’s probably due to your knee lever stop screw adjustment. If you’re happy with the feel of it and it lowers properly it is no big deal as others have said.

Terry Skaggs · From: Colorado, USA

Jim I"m in Westcliffe, about 60miles due west of Pueblo...going to try to adjust the knee lever stop and see if that helps. Where are you in Colorado? Thanks for the tip.
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Beard E-model, Martin D-28 CW, Mullen Discovery, Kemper Profiler,Bose L1 Compact

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Terry - Have you read Jon Light's post about overtuning and undertuning?

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=326460

That pull appears to be overtuned.

I would recommend reading Jon's post and following his guidance before making any changes.

~Lee

Jim Bloomfield · From: Colorado, USA

Jim Bloomfield · From: Colorado, USA

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

Two observations --
-- that underside photo certainly appears to be an overtuned 4th string.
-- you describe backing off the tuner until you had slack. This is confusing to me since it appears to be hung-up and overtuned.

No, three observations --
-- my experience in trying to split tune the 4th string, lowering the string to an in-tune F after engaging the C pedal is that yes, you will end up in an overtuned situation unless you re-rod the lowering lever to gain more string movement from the lever. A conventionally rodded 4th string lower may be in tune E>D# with the lever alone but with the C pedal engaged, that amount of E lever movement is not enough.
Unless you change the bellcrank and/or changer holes, you will crank the nylon tuner until it overtunes. (It's about the physics of how much movement is required to lower a string at 'at-rest' tension vs how much is required to lower a string at the elevated tension brought by the full step raise of the C pedal.)

No doubt, some guitars can maybe get there without re-rodding -- or they've been rodded in such a way as to provide enough leeway to get there without changing things around. But it's been my experience on several guitars that some adjustments beyond just nylon nut turning is called for.

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

Terry Skaggs · From: Colorado, USA

I have read the sticky note on overturning....and have fussed with this most of the day...here's what I have figured out.....if I back off nylon nut
until all the fingers line up...then try to tune the e lower (LKR) the finger ends up out of alignment with the others at rest and sometimes the
string wont return to open E it's flat...if i push the finger in by hand it moves about 1/16th of an inch and its in tune.......I am as they say chasing
my tail on this one....going to get ahold of Mike and see if I heed to run it out to the shop. Any other ideas are welcome.
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Beard E-model, Martin D-28 CW, Mullen Discovery, Kemper Profiler,Bose L1 Compact

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

It's hard to work on someone's guitar when you're not there but let me offer this one thing and I'll quit.

If when you back of the nut and everything tunes up, raise and lower, except....the finger does not return to the stop at rest, try tightening up the screw at the endplate that adjusts tension on the return spring.

If the finger doesn't return to the stop, the note will be flat of pitch.

Terry Skaggs · From: Colorado, USA

DING DING DING I think we have a winner......tightened up that screw and the finger returns to rest properly and the E is E ....wow.....took all day but I think we're in business......I sure thank you and everyone for the help!
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Beard E-model, Martin D-28 CW, Mullen Discovery, Kemper Profiler,Bose L1 Compact

Jerry Overstreet · From: Louisville Ky

Glad you got it sorted. I'll bet you learned something about the mechanics of your guitar in the process too. Happy pickin'.

Terry Skaggs · From: Colorado, USA

I sure did..thanks again.
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Beard E-model, Martin D-28 CW, Mullen Discovery, Kemper Profiler,Bose L1 Compact

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