question for ext E9/ U12 players

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

This topic came up through another active thread, so there may a little overlap..

At any rate, this is an inquiry for any of you 12 string players that use an E type tuning that has 3 separate G# strings.

Do you, or have you ever lowered that lowest G# on the B pedal down to G natural instead of raising it to A?

I use a 10 string E9/B6 set up and have 3 G#s on the B pedal. Works great, familiar, no issues.. I can't help but see the great possibilities of having that G on the bottom of the tuning though.

Fred Treece · From: California, USA

I would not do that trade off. Losing the low register pedal B raise G#>A would pretty much throw me off my game.

Since I went to S12 a few years ago, I see the E9 neck as E9/A6. I raise F# to G on a vertical for Em and A7 type chords, and for Em pentatonic scale forms (with pedal B). But I also wanted a lower register E7#9 chord form with the root on 12, so keeping the G# strings open was an imperative for that.

I think the 10- and 11-string setup leads away from the E9/A6 mindset and more toward Eadd9/B6 Universal tuning (no open D string 9) and associated changes. It’s not a bad thing, it’s just different from the way I think about it.

Chris Brooks · From: Providence, Rhode Island

Andrew, I'd pull the lowest G# up to A. That way you have the low tonic note in pedals-down position.

A G# to G change is nice; if you like it, put it on a 0 pedal so you can use it with A pedal on all 3 G#s for a minor 6 chord.

Justin Shaw · From: Ontario, Canada

I have 3 G#s, but I still raise all 3 to A with the B pedal. Thinking intervalicly, the B pedal gives you a unison/octave motion of G#->A in 2 or 3 voices. But if you have G#->A and G#->G you are taking a unison to a dominant 7 sound (A7 which leads to D major) which is outside the key, unless you want to also position change. That's a lot to put on one of the 3 main pedals. No of course you can, and P6 and P8 in the C6 tuning do something similar, but I think you'll find that you want the motion of G#->A in the base much more often than you'd use the G#->G.

That said I do agree that G#->G is very useful, and for that reason I have another pedal that takes all three G#->G.

Andrew Frost · From: Toronto, Ontario

I hear what you all are saying for sure. Thanks for the perspectives.

I definitely use that that low G# - A a lot and appreciate all that it offers..
Ya Fred I also think of my tuning as E9 / A6 as much as E9 / B6.
When you put the D on a lever, it makes for an uninterrupted B6, but also a big uninterrupted A6 with exactly the same intervals from the root and no D string in the middle.
R 3 5 6 R 3 5...

I use that D lever a lot, and yet having it out of the way is tremendously advantageous.

The best way for me to really know about this G natural thing is to stop talking about it and try it out.
I have a week or 2 with nothing on the calendar so may give it a spin.
Might be a fool's errand but we'll see.

The idea came from Zane Beck's E13 chart. Obviously a different tuning, different animal, but that G pull on the bottom is still intriguing.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I agree with you about the utility of the G note on the low G# of a U12 (string 10 on my Zum). I did try what you suggest on my Zum U12 at one point, but concluded that I could not live without the normal B-pedal G#=>A change.

I have a lever that lowers string 6 from G# to F#, and then split that with the standard B pedal to get G. This can be done with either a split tuning screw or an extra pull, to correct when the full-lower F# is ineveitably flat. I see no reason why this can't be done on the octave-lower G#, which is string 10 on my Zum U12. When I get to it, I plan to add that change to that Zum - I have the extra pull, but haven't had any time to work on my guitars for quite a while.

For me, the string 6 G#=>F# is one of my most-used changes - with that split, a lot of stuff opens up if you have that lower on the opposite knee from the E=>Eb lower. I know it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I would not live without it on string 6, and I think it will also be useful on string 10 of an E9/B6 universal. Seems to me that this argument would be equally valid on what is, basically, a 10-string universal.

Bengt Erlandsen · From: Brekstad, NORWAY

My Zumsteel S12extE9 have always raised strings 11, 6 & 3 G#-A on the B pedal. It makes all the open triads intuitive and a breeze to play.

I do however lower strings 11 and 6 from G#-G on my (front)LKL. Never felt the need for lowering string 3 tho.

My (rear)LKL raise only strings 8 and 4 E-F (string 12 stays at E)

B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7

Thornton Lewis · From: New York, USA

B pedal raises all G# to A. 0 pedal (left of A pedal) raises lower 2 G# to A#, ie regular C6 pedal 4.RKR lever lowers top and bottom G#s to G, middle G# to F# with a G split with the B pedal. That last thing is ticking me off and may have to go or at least be replaced by a half stop.
I also drop the lowest G# to F# on pedal 7,but I just started with that and haven't really figured it out yet.

Ian Rae · From: Redditch, England

I can confirm that the split G got with the B pedal and the G#>F# lever on string 6 is just as useful an octave lower.

I raise all three G#s on the B pedal, but on the A pedal I raise only 5 and 9 (9 is a B - I don't have a D string). 12 is also a B but instead of raising it I lower it to A, also on the A pedal, to give a root note with pedals down.
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