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Topic: C6th 1st string - ? |
Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 1:21 pm
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I know this is crazy, but every so-often, I feel like having the G on top. Not permanently - that D opens up so much - but when I hear something that was clearly done with the old ten-string tuning it tempts me.
IS there a gauge that might be capable of sounding halfway decent when tuned to either note?
I'm looking for a lazy solution! _________________ Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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George Duncan Sypert
From: Colo Spgs, Co, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 2:39 pm
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12 Gauge plain works pretty good but you probably won't have the G# note unless you leave the pull rod loose until you want the G note and loosen it when you have the D. Hope that made sense. I just do without the G# note. I can always put the rod back when I want to. |
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Ricky Davis
From: Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 4:10 pm
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Yeah back when I played C6 Neck( two week notice neck...ha)
, just like George said I used the 12 also it went very nicely between the high G and down to a D no problems, matter of fact I think I did them both on this song 23 years ago LIVE in London>>>>
https://youtu.be/tcVeooHXId8?si=1U_6JQ996Zki5GFe
Ricky _________________ Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 4:56 pm
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Thanks, guys.
I have never played that neck without a D on top. After seeing you mentioning the 'G#', I looked up some older setups.
It seems that it was standard to raise the 1st to G# on P5.
Why? It has no place in the 2/9th chord that is the main use of p5.
It's actually a flat-5th.
How might it have been used? _________________ Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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George Duncan Sypert
From: Colo Spgs, Co, USA
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 7:05 pm
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Roger I play very little if any C6th but with a G# note on one an E on two and a B with knee lowered on three that would give you a major chord although I never thought of that till now. You would to ask someone that plays standard C6th. |
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Tony Glassman
From: The Great Northwest
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Posted 29 Aug 2023 7:40 pm
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If you have a 3rd string half tone raise on a knee lever (C—>C#), you can get the same voicing as strings 1,2,3 & 4 (i.e. A-C-E-G) by moving up 3 frets with your 5th pedal & the knee lever engaged on strings 2,3,4 & 5) |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 2:34 am
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Tony
I have that raise and wouldn't sacrifice the D string for anything. Getting the high G three frets up is in my DNA.
There are two pieces in particular that seem to me require the G string: Mike Smith's splendid Jesus Loves Me and Russ Hicks' (Barefoot Jerry) Two Mile Pike.
Mike's tune is not too much of a problem with a D at 1, but Russ' tune depends open pull-offs and open strings.
(I cab almost find '..Pike' in D using the current tuning but it's not quite right. ) _________________ Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 6:49 am
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When the G-G# change appears on P5, I don't think it is intended to be used with the other P5 changes - for instance, P5,6&7 will give a diminished chord on strings 1-4. _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Erv Niehaus
From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 7:13 am
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Herby Wallace had G for his first string.
I have a couple of his C6th courses.
Erv |
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Earnest Bovine
From: Los Angeles CA USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 8:18 am
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Doug Jernigan re-tunes his first string D up to G to play his solo Streets Of Laredo. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From: Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 8:25 am
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I watched Jernigan tune between D and G in a few seconds while playing an Emmons Legrande at Seymour's store. He used the .012 gage string for it. I do use the C to C# change a bit to get the G note three frets up. Some of the Emmons black album tunes and much of Pete Drake's C6 tunes require the high G string. |
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TRAP TRULY
From: Mobile , AL
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 8:57 am
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I have often wondered if a Hipshot tuning peg or some variation of it that is used to drop the E string on 6 string guitars would work. It would be great if you could simply flip the lever to change the note at the tuner. |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 10:02 am
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Nice, Ricky!
What was the venue in London? _________________ Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Ricky Davis
From: Bertram, Texas USA
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Herb Steiner
From: Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 2:28 pm
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One solution, however requiring a complete re-working of the undercarriage, would be to omit the traditional 10th string and move the entire tuning one string to the left.
This would make the tuning an Fmaj6/9 chord, low to high being: F A C E G A C E G D, with string 1 being the re-entrant note (similar to the F# on the E9 tuning).
I've considered this in the past but felt I was too into the modern tuning (D on s.1) to change over. Of course I have 5 knee levers on that tuning, so the C-C# change is de rigeur. _________________ My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 2:37 pm
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Ah, The Borderline - that's where I played with the Big E! I'll listen to that at my next dialysis treatment; it'll make the time fly by.
Herb: You have a point and, with 12 strings, you can have it all. I love Rick Schmidt's D-12 set-up. He has the equivalent chromatic strings on C6th, mirroring those on E9.
I have to say that, at this point, the 10th string is my least-used on the back neck. Would I miss it? I'd dread the upheaval of changing all those pulls, though.
I just want to tinker occasionally with that high G so I doubt I'd make such a radical change at my age (said the man who's awaiting delivery of a new SD12 D13th!!!) _________________ Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Herb Steiner
From: Spicewood TX 78669
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Posted 30 Aug 2023 3:39 pm
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Roger Rettig wrote: |
Herb: You have a point and, with 12 strings, you can have it all. I love Rick Schmidt's D-12 set-up. He has the equivalent chromatic strings on C6th, mirroring those on E9.
I have to say that, at this point, the 10th string is my least-used on the back neck. Would I miss it? I'd dread the upheaval of changing all those pulls, though.
I just want to tinker occasionally with that high G so I doubt I'd make such a radical change at my age (said the man who's awaiting delivery of a new SD12.. !!!) |
I briefly borrowed an S-12 and tuned it thusly:
D F A C E G A C E G B D
without any pedal changes and in non-pedal mode, of which I am familiar anyway. I believe this is the tuning Reece used on his non-pedal S12 (the guitar I borrowed had E9Uni pedals and I don't mess with the pedals on guitars I don't own.)
I never pulled the trigger on that or any S-12, so far; I really didn't give the tuning a fair trial because I was gigging enough and I didn't want to commit to learning a new sight picture on the neck. But the chord possiblities are endless, even with no pedals.
Anyway, here and now I'm getting rid of stuff, not acquiring more, so I doubt I'll be living in S-12Land anytime soon. In the winter of my career, I'm just gonna pick my way into the Texas sunset on the ol' C6 with a D on top. _________________ My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
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Greg Cutshaw
From: Corry, PA, USA
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Ian Rae
From: Redditch, England
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Posted 31 Aug 2023 1:13 am
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The re-entrant pair of strings is a great idea, just like on E9. I shall live out my days in Uniland, but at least I have the equivalent of a high G. In B6 mode it goes
B E G# B D# F# G# B D# G# C# F# _________________ Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Roger Rettig
From: Naples, FL
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Posted 31 Aug 2023 5:41 am
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Herb:
If I wasn't prevented from taking show contracts by my dialysis schedule, I wouldn't dream of even monkeying around with pedal/KL changes on my standard Emmons D10, much less attempting this new D13th concept at 80 years old.
I'm more than a bit compulsive and, when I first looked at D13 (JC's), I jumped in an ordered a guitar! I've altered things a bit to accommodate my musical priorities but it's along his lines.
What I should have done was say to myself: 'That's clever - if I was starting now, that's what I'd have' and left it at that.
It's about to arrive! In my last 4.5 years of unemployed/medical retirement, I've probably done too much tinkering. Right now, I'm following Doug Jernigan's videos and pondering some of his extra pulls.
I'm viewing the new Williams D13th rather like a top-of-the-line Erector Set (Meccano in England) - I'll open the box and, metaphorically speaking, build a three-inch long wheelbarrow rather than the large-scale Queensborough Bridge of which it's capable.
Joking aside, I'm sure I'll enjoy it - at the very least, the thought of a P7 option on a 9th tuning (D9, of course; the left half of my new guitar) has always appealed to me. Jumping to 1 and 2 doesn't quite cut it.
I still wonder if I'd have done better to get a D12 but that ship has sailed.
Having said that, I have recently had a call to do a (fairly) local run of a show next Spring! My first instinct was to decline but I soon realized that I wanted to do it. I miss playing with others. I miss it all.
It may be six months away, but I bet I still take my Emmons D10. _________________ Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Richard Sinkler
From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 31 Aug 2023 5:48 am
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Quote: |
Yeah back when I played C6 Neck( two week notice neck...ha) |
I'm so bad on C6, I get asked to pack up and leave immediately when I touch that neck. _________________ Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Bill Cunningham
From: Atlanta, Ga. USA
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Posted 31 Aug 2023 5:53 pm
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FWIW, Maurice once opined here there was no way he could do without the high 5th note, or words to that effect. Obviously other greats feel differently. _________________ Bill Cunningham
Atlanta, GA |
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Andrew Frost
From: Toronto, Ontario
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 6:59 pm
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I don't play a lot of straight C6 but that G to G# change on pedal 5 has intrigued me for a while. I've incorporated the equivalent into some different tuning set ups.
Its a beautifully useful #11...
C6 wise, at fret 11 w/ P5 its C#9(#11) which is a really nice G7, 5 chord sub. It resolves to C6 up one fret.
The Major7#11 use is great too...
P5 w/ Cs raised to C#.....Think "Moon River" on the 4 chord....'WIDER THAN A MILE' ....(maj7 #11)
Also great for a kind of 'F lever' effect playing 3rds with the E string....
I would think having both the G and D would be the ultimate. Hmm Bb6? |
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Mike Wilson
From: Mansfield, Ohio, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2023 4:10 am
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Roger Herby Wallace and I had this conversation and he told me to use a 15 gauge string on the first string and as usual he was right. I could tune up or down from a D to G and back with the 15. |
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Mike Wilson
From: Mansfield, Ohio, USA
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Posted 11 Sep 2023 4:46 am
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Roger Herby Wallace and I had this conversation and he told me to use a 15 gauge string on the first string and as usual he was right. I could tune up or down from a D to G and back with the 15. |
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