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Topic: Guyatone??? |
Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 11:03 am |
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Looking for another non pedal, 8 string...and this is available on the internet. Realize it's kinda an off brand...but looking for something to compliment my National double 8, which is totally not stock, but sounds good, with the 8 string guitar humbuckers I put in it. Just looking for a couple extra necks for different tunings and also wouldn't dismiss a single neck either. I think there are some import 8 strings on the cheap, but not looking to throw money away either. This is just strictly for my home studio.
This Guyatone is about $700, which seems a bit high, but again if it's something I want, a couple extra bucks at this point in my life isn't going to sway things one way or the other.
So...you can tell I'm a newb with these older items but I am comfortable in my guitar abilities gained over 60 years.
At 70 years old, I'm thinking I should just enjoy things while you can and are able.
Should I just get a Stringmaster or a Gibson...or would this fit the bill?
Again...I dont want a pedal steel...but my non pedals don't approach the sound of the pedal guitars. Currently I have an Oahu Diana, a Supro Comet, both 6 strings, and the National. If it's technique I'm lacking for tone, I understand, but I go direct into my computer thru various interfaces and also have a Line6 Helix and all the plugins anyone would ever need, in my computer.
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 12:43 pm
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| Quote: |
| but my non pedals don't approach the sound of the pedal guitars |
Are you going for the tone of a modern pedal steel? If so, neither the Guyatone, nor any vintage Fender or Gibson console is going to get you there. You'd really want a modern instrument with a high-output pickup for that.
But if you're looking for something different from what you alredy have, the Guyatone will indeed be different. They don't really sound like the Fenders they ape, but they're not bad either. (Very few lap steels really sound bad in my estimation). |
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Bill Groner
From:
QUAKERTOWN, PA
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 12:57 pm
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What do you think about the sound of Peter's Guyatone?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZPWAYEshTo
_________________
Currently own, 6 Groner-tone lap steels, one 1953 Alamo Lap steel, Roland Cube, Fender Champion 40 |
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 1:16 pm
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I think it sounds nice, but leaning more towards the "new string" sound and maybe a bit thin and tinny. I don't want to use those words in a negative context, but that would be my description.
I'm looking more for the sound they you'd get, when you pick further up the neck. A thicker kinda "hollow sound". Hard to describe but more like a clarinet, if that makes sense. A thick, but mellow tone.
As mentioned above, I can see not getting that with older style steels and probably need to find something with a high output pickup, as mentioned. Maybe I can just experiment with that. The limitation being that those pickups only seem to be for 10 string pedals and above.
My humbuckers are high gain, 12K pickups in my National, and the sound is not bad. But yes, the NEW sound of the pedal steel is just sooo nice.
Maybe posting a link of the sound would be a good idea..
I have no idea who this band is or the pedal player...but THIS is the tone I'm looking for...if it's possible on a non pedal?
https://youtu.be/-s9_6VnKr98?si=uzAM7rt_dmPr4ISL |
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 1:18 pm
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
| Quote: |
| but my non pedals don't approach the sound of the pedal guitars |
Are you going for the tone of a modern pedal steel? If so, neither the Guyatone, nor any vintage Fender or Gibson console is going to get you there. You'd really want a modern instrument with a high-output pickup for that.
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You make an excellent point and I slap my forehead for being an idiot.
My other reply had a link...this one
https://youtu.be/-s9_6VnKr98?si=uzAM7rt_dmPr4ISL
No idea who this is...but THIS is the sound. Can this be achieved on a non pedal??
EDIT... it looks like an older Emmons he is playing...but I'm the first to admit I have no idea or knowledge of PSG. I think his playing is spot on, not knocking me out technically, but nice and clean. His tone..at least to ME is what totally elevates his playing. Nice, basic playing but he HAS the sound. Educate me if I'm missing something or this guy is Joe-average. I also hear all the reverb and stuff too and understand this is studio processed, which is not beyond my capabilities too, |
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 1:30 pm
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For fear of spamming... this is the sound off my National, which I recorded yesterday.
There's a solo in the 2nd verse and I kinda riff around at the end as well.
https://youtu.be/50ABXanbifw?si=c2mcmtqtYhWO53eE
Lots of string "chatter" that I'm hearing and general "slide noise", but keeping the treble up seems to help cut thru the mix. Plus....I'm a guitar player trying to play steel... so take that into consideration. |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 2:16 pm
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Modern pedal steels have more sustain and clarity than most vintage non-pedal steels for a few reasons. They have half a ton of metal between the headstock and the bridge, and they have high-output pickups with limited dynamic range (the dynamics coming mostly from the volume pedal instead). You can approximate this somewhat with a compressor pedal, but in order to really nail that sound you need an instrument that weighs more than the UPS truck it came in.
You might consider looking at a '50s or '60s Fender pedal steel like the 400/800/1000/2000 models and just leave the pedals off. Those have cast metal frames around the wood body that give them a lot of sustain, and they're relatively affordable because they're not rare and the pull-wire mechanism is outdated as far as pedal steels go.
But buying a compressor pedal first is a heck of a lot cheaper (maybe throw in a volume pedal too) and it may just get you where you want to be. |
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 3:46 pm
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| Noah Miller wrote: |
But buying a compressor pedal first is a heck of a lot cheaper (maybe throw in a volume pedal too) and it may just get you where you want to be. |
Thanks Noah..
I'm actually using a volume pedal and compressors..but they're software on the input.
I mounted my "replacement humbuckers" on 4" x 4" x 1/4" aluminum plates. In talking volume pedal and compressors, that to me sounds more like amplitude volume dynamics versus the tone everyone seems to chase after ( unless they caught it"!). The tone is what eludes me.
I'll look at those Fenders
Thanks agsin. |
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 3:57 pm
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It seems those Fender guitars are fetching premium prices because people are raping the pickups out of them. Plus the early 400 etc apparently had Jazzmaster style pickups.
I do like the 8 strings vs 10...for now. Maybe a mistake. Seems there are new; basic PSG selling in the same price bracket.
1/2 the fun is the looking though...sometimes.
I'm near Nashville and should just make a road trip |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 4:09 pm
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No, people are not stealing pickups en masse from old Fender pedal steels. They do not fit in Jazzmasters, Jaguars, or any other guitar.
A 400 or 1000 can easily be had below $1500, which is certainly more than that Guyatone but quite reasonable as old pedal steels go. |
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2023 8:47 pm
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thanks...yeah I got a feel of some current pricing as I looked a lot, but obviously just looking for what's available that I saw today...and "sold" prices on older sales too. I DID see quite a few stripped 400 for $189 and the like. I was surprised, but I guess not really. Anything "Fender" seems to be getting a good price for the name alone.
That said, the Fender Champ lap guitar is being "salvaged" a lot for the guitar sized pickup to put in Telecasters, I guess we can thank Ry Cooder for that idea. If you can't get your hands on a 50's Telecaster or want to spend a healthy 5 digits, maybe the "same" pickup used in the early Telecasters, is the next best thing??
I've even seen 1950's pots going for $300 and the pickups alone for $1000...and they are selling, unfortunately for the preservation of those guitars.
"Vintage" knobs for $100??
Years ago, I was offered well over $100 for my broken 1967 Flying V pickguard. I sold it since I had already replaced it, so my V could stay a player.
Any rate, as suggested earlier, probably a newer build is what I'm looking for, to help with my tone chasing. I had a pair of Stringmaster pickups in my National and pulled them out in favor for my current 8 pole humbuckers, wound at 12.5k....over the 7.5k of the Stringmasters. They're thicker sounding and have twice the output and are silent as well.... but still searching!
Thanks again Noah, useful knowledge. |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2023 6:26 am
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| Chris, I bought a D8 Guyatone early this year. Not a bad instrument. I had to fix a tuning key and drill out the broken screws in the tuner pan screws that fasten it to the wood body. It has some foil style pickups and a multiple tone option switches. I believe Doug Beaumier has a video of his playing a cool tune. His looks pristine. My has seen hard use and abuse. Of course I'd rather had a Stringmaster but the prices pushed me away. |
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2023 7:57 am
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| Thanks Larry. I think I lust too much, but it's a healthy lust! |
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Doug Beaumier
From:
Northampton, MA
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Norman Evans
From:
Tennessee
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 10 Sep 2023 6:12 am
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Thx Doug and Norm.
Yes..massive thread! |
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