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Topic: Tone Bars, Brass, Stainless, Aluminum |
W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2014 3:27 pm |
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I've been selling tone bars for a while now, on eBay. I thought I might start a thread here, offer them for sale here. I can make a tone bar pretty much any size, and from most any material. Lately, what seems to be the most popular is: Stainless Steel, Brass, and believe it or not, aluminum.
For stainless I've been using 316 alloy.
For brass, lately I've been using 485 Marine brass, which holds up to saltwater, (sweat), better than some other brasses.
The aluminum tone bar, is heavily anodized, and then polished to a glass finish. Anodizing is actually a thin layer of aluminum oxide, which, if you didn't already know, is what sapphire stones are, and is the 2nd hardest material next to diamond. The aluminum is super light weight, very smooth and makes very little string noise, has reasonably good sustain and tone. Most people I've sold this to like it, and agree with what I say about it. And unlike glass, ceramic, and some plastics, it does not crack or break or shatter if dropped. The surface is not affected by the strings, it does not scratch, as it is many times harder than the strings.
Brass:
Stainless Steel:
Aluminum:
Price: $17.50/each , plus shipping.
Here is a link to my Innovative Guitars shopping cart page for tone bars: http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=Innovativeguitars
If you want a size other than what is listed, add a comment to indicate this. You can also communicate with me by email or phone, if you wish.
My web site for Innovative Guitars, is www.innovativeguitars.com . It is under construction. My other business web address, for my flashlight business is www.elektrolumens.com
(I have been in business with Elektro Lumens for about 11 or 12 years.)
My contact information, including email and address and phone number, is all listed there.
This is not to direct to eBay, but to sell direct here. I have no problem donating to this forum some of the proceeds, as recommended. 
W. Johnson
Last edited by W. Johnson on 2 Mar 2014 8:06 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Bill Hatcher
From:
Atlanta Ga. USA
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Posted 28 Feb 2014 3:51 pm
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| sent you an email. |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2014 3:43 pm
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I'm getting a number of requests for a SP-1 style tone bar. Next week I will try my hand at making one, of aluminum, and perhaps one from brass. I will share my results once I've made one.
I'm also looking at making a tone bar from Silicon Bronze, which is as hard as steel, and perhaps will more robust than brass, yet hopefully provides the same tone qualities as brass.
Wayne |
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Bill Dobkins
From:
Rolla Missouri, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2014 11:09 pm
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I would take an aluminum one,7/8 dia. also have you thought about Titanium, light and rugged.
_________________
Custom Rittenberry SD10
Boss Katana 100 Amp
Positive Grid Spark amp
BJS Bars
Z~Legend Pro,Custom Tele
Honor our Vet's.
Now pass the gravy. |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2014 11:29 pm
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| Bill Dobkins wrote: |
| I would take an aluminum one,7/8 dia. also have you thought about Titanium, light and rugged. |
For the aluminum 7/8" not a problem. Send me an email: waynej@elektrolumens.com . Also, specify the length.
Regarding titanium, I have made a titanium tone bar. Titanium, like aluminum, can be anodized. Titanium is more dense than aluminum so has a little bit better sustain. It is VERY expensive.
Here is a link to my Innovative Guitars shopping cart page: http://www.king-cart.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?store=Innovativeguitars
Be sure to indicate in the comment section the size you want if it's different than what is listed, or email me about it. (I only have two sizes listed at this time.)
Wayne |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2014 8:58 am Wayne Johnson tone bars -- a nice bar at a bargain price.
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| I have an Emmons bar that I've been using since the '70s for 10-string pedal steel. I recently purchased one of Wayne's marine brass bars from his eBay site after I stumbled across the listing. I considered the price to be quite reasonable, so I decided to give one a try. It's almost exactly the same dimensions as my old Emmons bar, but it is heavier by about 3/4 ounce. It sounds fantastic. I consider the Johnson bar to be an incredible bargain. I plan to order another smaller marine brass bar for 6-string lap steel and reso playing. Well done, Wayne! |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2014 8:50 am
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I get requests for a number of different dimensions, typically diameter requests are 7/8", 15/16", and 1". Length varies from 3" to 3 1/2", sometimes 2 7/8. I have added most of these sizes to my shopping cart, in Aluminum, Brass, and Stainless Steel. I also have come up with new pricing for each size. My prices are low and fair, as I make these myself and there is no middle man between me and you. Email me if you want a different size or material than listed.
Thank you,
W. Johnson
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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Kevin Mincke
From:
Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2014 11:33 pm
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I'll ship you my SP-1 bar for dimensions & specifics if you're interested for future building purposes.
Kevin |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2014 6:31 am
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| Kevin Mincke wrote: |
I'll ship you my SP-1 bar for dimensions & specifics if you're interested for future building purposes.
Kevin |
I have one that I purchased on eBay a long time ago, but whether it's the same specs as the one you have, I don't know. I'll take a close look at pictures and specs of the SP-1. I bought this kind of bar when I built my first pedal steel.
W. Johnson |
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Dick Chapple Sr
From:
Hardin Montana, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2014 4:12 pm aluminum tone bar
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Hi Wayne:
My 3.5" aluminum tone bar arrived today. I like it very much and it is light enough for me to use. It is ultra smooth and glides easily and quietly.
I will order more bars from you to use on my 6 and 8 string nonpedal steels.
I currently have been using 1" by 3" ceramic bars and have been very happy with them.
One thing I'd like to see on my bars for 6 and 8 stringers is a thumb indent in the back end of the bar for reverse slant help. Just now wondering if a piece of Velcro on the back end would be enough for the thumb to get a hold of?
Another thing I'm not sure makes a difference really other than adjusting to it's shape is the shape of the bullet end. Most of my tone bars have totally rounded bullet ends which makes it easy to tip the bar and touch 2 strings at the same time. Is the bullet end of the nonpedal bars shaped like the 3.5" pedal steel bar I bought from you, that is, well rounded but has a small flat area on its nose? Or are they totally rounded? Does it matter even, for tipping and playing two strings at the same time with the tip? From your pictures I see it looks as though you offer totally rounded ends too. I will try the long bar on my dobro to see if the bullet end with a flat nose works better than a fully rounded nose. If so, I may order a fully round for my nonpedal steels and a rounded bullet with flat nose for the dobro.
What length is most commonly used for 8 string nonpedal? Will 3" length be sufficient?
Dick
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 6 Mar 2014 4:40 pm Re: aluminum tone bar
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| Dick Chapple Sr wrote: |
Hi Wayne:
My 3.5" aluminum tone bar arrived today. I like it very much and it is light enough for me to use. It is ultra smooth and glides easily and quietly.
I will order more bars from you to use on my 6 and 8 string nonpedal steels.
I currently have been using 1" by 3" ceramic bars and have been very happy with them.
One thing I'd like to see on my bars for 6 and 8 stringers is a thumb indent in the back end of the bar for reverse slant help. Just now wondering if a piece of Velcro on the back end would be enough for the thumb to get a hold of?
Another thing I'm not sure makes a difference really other than adjusting to it's shape is the shape of the bullet end. Most of my tone bars have totally rounded bullet ends which makes it easy to tip the bar and touch 2 strings at the same time. Is the bullet end of the nonpedal bars shaped like the 3.5" pedal steel bar I bought from you, that is, well rounded but has a small flat area on its nose? Or are they totally rounded? Does it matter even, for tipping and playing two strings at the same time with the tip? From your pictures I see it looks as though you offer totally rounded ends too. I will try the long bar on my dobro to see if the bullet end with a flat nose works better than a fully rounded nose. If so, I may order a fully round for my nonpedal steels and a rounded bullet with flat nose for the dobro.
What length is most commonly used for 8 string nonpedal? Will 3" length be sufficient?
Dick
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I can machine in a recession into the flat end if it is wanted. Or make grooves, perhaps. Felcro might work?
For a player in Austin, he had me make a hollow aluminum bar, with a rounded solid nose. Seems to me he uses it on a non-pedal guitar.
I have made aluminum tube dobro slides.
I can vary the rounded nose, from totally rounded, to partially rounded. I appreciate feedback, so I can make these bars the way most want them. If you are not happy with the shape of the nose, I can replace yours, if you like, with one that is more rounded. Maybe email me about it?
Regarding the most common length for a 8 string non-pedal, I don't think I'm an expert enough to answer, maybe someone else can answer that. I also think it depends on the player, the size of his hand, style of playing, etc.
Thanks for the feedback!
W. Johnson |
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Dustin Rigsby
From:
Parts Unknown, Ohio
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 7:53 am Stainless Strings
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Wayne, how well does the aluminum bar stand up to stainless strings that are popular now ? I know they don't do well with stainless bars.
_________________
D.S. Rigsby |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 7 Mar 2014 9:09 am Re: Stainless Strings
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| Dustin Rigsby wrote: |
| Wayne, how well does the aluminum bar stand up to stainless strings that are popular now ? I know they don't do well with stainless bars. |
I have stainless strings on several of my guitars, works fine, does not get scratched, if that is what you're asking about?
When aluminum is anodized, it is electrically coated with a thin layer of aluminum oxide. Sapphire stone, is actually aluminum oxide, and is the second hardest material, only diamond is harder. It is also very smooth. I anodize these bars for about 24 hours, putting a very thick coat of aluminum oxide on the surface of the bar. Then I seal it, then polish it using my lathe, to a super smooth surface.
Under normal use, it should not get scratched. It can be dented if pounded or dropped on a sharp edge. I can repair a damaged bar, by de-anodizing it, resurfacing it, and re-anodizing it again, but probably not cost effective, since I sell these for a pretty low price.
Unlike glass or ceramic, or some plastics, it will not crack or shatter if dropped.
Regarding stainless steel not doing well with stainless steel strings, it might be because the stainless used in the bars is not so hard. Most stainless steel, like 303, 304, 316, or even 440 (used in knives), is about as hard as regular steel, about B91 on the Rockwell hardness scale. Of course it can be hardened. The hardest stainless I've seen is 17-4 (also 15-5) stainless, which is rated at C35, much harder than other alloys of stainless, even after hardening them.
BTW, grade 5 titanium alloy,is also rated at C35. Grade 5 titanium is about 90% titanium, 6% vanadium, and 4% aluminum. Grade 2 titanium, which is 99% pure titanium, is only about as hard as regular steel, although much lighter. A few people have asked me about a titanium bar, but the cost has caused them to reconsider.
W. Johnson |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 8 Mar 2014 8:28 pm
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Progress update...........
I just received my order of brass rod on Friday, so I'll me making and shipping the brass bars ordered first part of next week.
Thanks,
W. Johnson |
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Ted Crigger
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 13 Mar 2014 6:05 pm Quetion sent to your e-mail!
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PM Sent!
Please check out my question for you, need some advice pls,
~Ted
_________________
Still Steel'n after all this time♫ |
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David Mason
From:
Cambridge, MD, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2014 5:42 am
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There's apparently some sort of metallurgical reason to not use stainless bars on stainless strings - Bobbe Seymour has a highly evolved bit of opinion on the matter, using the examples of using bronze bearings in a stainless aircraft engine, etc. I will admit to sometimes using stainless bars on stainless strings with no problem as have many others - in my case it's pretty certain I'm not exactly generating some dangerously high RPM's. I just got my brass bar from Mr. Johnson and it's a fine piece. As a few may know, I try to keep a few different bars on hand to fit a variety of needs:
Surely you need a bar for the morning, one for afternoon, one for rainy days, one for cold rainy days, one for 3am excursions etc. I now have a tuning on the close neck of a D10 no-pedaller that allows me to stay somewhat congruent with "real" slide guitar...  I that regards, I love brass slides because you can wear a smooth spot in five minutes, but turning it a bit to catch some tarnish also "grabs" the string in an interesting way. There are slide and bar makers who intentionally "surface" their wares, but they go way over the top of what's useful to me.
This guy's work is really, really nice - as you can see above, I am running a little short on bars.... I do have some ten or twelve more new ones, but that was mostly about finding the perfect pinky slide size.
(THIS):
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1575&step=4&showunits=inches&id=85&top_cat=0
(AND THIS):
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=7773&step=4&showunits=inches&id=283&top_cat=0
(AND THIS):
http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=474&step=4&showunits=inches&id=19&top_cat=0
Though I genuinely prefer ferrous steel to stainless. I hope he doesn't mind my hijack here, cause I'm going to be getting some/lots more stuff from him! I was one of the lucky fellows who got everything I asked for from "Marty S." before he absconded with enough payments from SGF members to... pay for gas from Chicago to Wisconsin, maybe? But a good machinist who can work from drawings - ON A STEEL GUITAR FORUM? Might as well be minting money....  |
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Adrian Wang
From:
Singapore
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Posted 24 Mar 2014 9:08 am
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Hi Wayne,
Ordered, paypal sent for 1 piece of 15/16 stainless steel bar.
coming my way |
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Adrian Wang
From:
Singapore
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Posted 4 Apr 2014 8:10 am
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15/16 tone bar received, thanks Wayne
better tone than 7/8 |
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Miller Adams
From:
Arizona, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 6:38 am OnLine Metals
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Hey Wayne,
I just bought a Remington Steel from Kelly Coyle and he has included one of your titanium bars. From comments posted I can't wait to try it out. I followed the above post and went to OnLine Metals and while perusing the different titanium alloys I found this caveat at the bottom of one page. IT CRACKED ME UP. So I'm posting it here. At the bottom of this page:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/productguides/titaniumguide.cfm
Was this tidbit:
At OnlineMetals, we all failed shop class. Multiple times. As a matter of fact, our employment applications specifically ask to see people's grades for their high school shop classes. If they're too high, they go into the rejected pile. We're also not engineers, and cannot make any specific recommendations about the suitability of a given alloy, temper, or shape for your project or application.
All technical data is for comparison purposes only and is NOT FOR DESIGN. It has been compiled from sources we believe to be accurate but cannot guarantee. This ends the part of the website that our pointy-headed lawyers made us put in.
cheers,
miller |
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W. Johnson
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 2 Sep 2014 7:06 am Re: OnLine Metals
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| Miller Adams wrote: |
Hey Wayne,
I just bought a Remington Steel from Kelly Coyle and he has included one of your titanium bars. From comments posted I can't wait to try it out. I followed the above post and went to OnLine Metals and while perusing the different titanium alloys I found this caveat at the bottom of one page. IT CRACKED ME UP. So I'm posting it here. At the bottom of this page:
http://www.onlinemetals.com/productguides/titaniumguide.cfm
Was this tidbit:
At OnlineMetals, we all failed shop class. Multiple times. As a matter of fact, our employment applications specifically ask to see people's grades for their high school shop classes. If they're too high, they go into the rejected pile. We're also not engineers, and cannot make any specific recommendations about the suitability of a given alloy, temper, or shape for your project or application.
All technical data is for comparison purposes only and is NOT FOR DESIGN. It has been compiled from sources we believe to be accurate but cannot guarantee. This ends the part of the website that our pointy-headed lawyers made us put in.
cheers,
miller |
I guess if I applied for a job there, they would hire me!
The titanium bars I made are anodized. Titanium oxide is tough and lasts, but I had one player who apparently presses down pretty hard, wore through the anodizing layer pretty fast. The anodizing is exceedingly thin. Anyway, if it ever wears out you can send it back to me and I can re-anodize it, as it only takes a minute or so to do so.
Every now and then I put up a tone bar for sale on eBay, and mostly these days I use good old stainless steel.
My favorite bar is 7/8" x 5", rounded on both ends, (only made this one.) I tune my guitar to Am7, (variation of C6: A - C - E - G - C - E), and the long bar works well for me for some interesting bar slants.
Wayne
_________________
I am on Facebook as Innovative Guitars. Photos of all my work in photo album. I no longer make lap steels, but still make tone bars. |
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Glenn Taylor
From:
Denver, CO, USA
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Posted 15 Aug 2023 2:12 pm
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This is an old thread but I just ordered and received 3 tone bars from Wayne Johnson. They are custom size (7/8 X 4 1/4"). I expect he could make any size you want. Two of the bars are hardened stainless steel, and one is anodized aluminum. Excellent workmanship all around.
I have no skin in this game---but Wayne hit it out of the park.
Very reasonable prices as well.
_________________
moyo volume pedals:
https://glenntaylormusic.us/
https://reverb.com/item/4390294-moyo-mini-volume-pedal |
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