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Topic: Lightweight enough |
Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 6:40 am |
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Is it possible the major pedal steel manufacturers have taken compact and lightweight too far? There is a lot to be said about stability when playing. I have been playing long enough to know better than to hammer knee levers, but with the light weight steels of today it is nearly impossible to not cause the instrument to wiggle some with knee lever movement. No matter how smooth and gentle your movements of the levers, that wiggle soon translates to loose legs after a while. Then loosened legs translate to more wiggle.
To be fair, I appreciate our PSG builders and know they are building some of the best guitars ever. They are a credit and most valuable asset to our beloved Pedal Steel Guitar community.
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You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 6:49 am
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I feel that when you sacrifice weight you also sacrifice tone and sustain.
Erv  |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 8:19 am
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| A good sustaining Fender Tele or even better sustaining hollow body guitar can weight less than 10 pounds. It have more to do with design than weight. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 8:21 am
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| I thought we were talking about pedal steel guitars. |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 9:00 am
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| Just showing that any guitar can have excellent sustain at low weight. Look at a 10 pound lap steel for example. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 9:22 am
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| Greg Cutshaw wrote: |
| Just showing that any guitar can have excellent sustain at low weight. Look at a 10 pound lap steel for example. |
Greg, I agree. My concern is about stability. Also, the threaded socket for the legs. I like my lighter weight psg, and understand that everything comes at a cost or compromise.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 9:25 am Re: Lightweight enough
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| Bill Duncan wrote: |
Is it possible the major pedal steel manufacturers have taken compact and lightweight too far? There is a lot to be said about stability when playing. I have been playing long enough to know better than to hammer knee levers, but with the light weight steels of today it is nearly impossible to not cause the instrument to wiggle some with knee lever movement. No matter how smooth and gentle your movements of the levers, that wiggle soon translates to loose legs after a while. Then loosened legs translate to more wiggle.
To be fair, I appreciate our PSG builders and know they are building some of the best guitars ever. They are a credit and most valuable asset to our beloved Pedal Steel Guitar community. |
I only play S-10 guitars now. (Not SD-10) Of the two, the little Williams Keyless guitar is the smallest and lightest.
It has plenty of sustain and sounds wonderful.
When I switched from U-12 guitars, I did have to learn to go a little lighter with the knee movement.
I also have the knee-levers set up with the least amount of resistance I can get.
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Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande
There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.
Williams Keyless S-10, BMI S-10, Evans FET-500LV, Fender Steel King, 2 Roland Cube 80XL's,
Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 3:42 pm Re: Lightweight enough
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| Bill Duncan wrote: |
| Is it possible the major pedal steel manufacturers have taken compact and lightweight too far? |
I don't see it that way. You want a heavy guitar, buy a heavy guitar. You want a light guitar, buy a light guitar. (They still make both!) Doesn't matter much what brand you pick, they're all pretty good nowadays.
But if your guitar is too light, it's easy enough to "heavy it up". And if it walks around too much on a smooth floor, just smear some RTV silicone on the bottom of the leg tips and let 'em dry...(no more slippy-slip).
Oh, and by the way, Erv, weight doesn't always mean great sustain. Just ask anyone that's owned an old cable Fender, or a die-board MSA.  |
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Fred Treece
From:
California, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 4:05 pm
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I’m down with scrapping threaded legs. The Ross Schaefer socket design would seem to be the answer to that. The end is still threaded, but the conical shape of the tip is the game changer. I don’t own a Sierra so I can’t say from experience, but it does look like a brilliant idea.
And by the way, what the heck is up with knuckles that don’t tighten the lower section of an adjustable leg? That drives me crazy.
I think the stability factor is more about the legs than it is about the weight. |
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Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2023 4:16 pm Re: Lightweight enough
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Bill Duncan wrote: |
| Is it possible the major pedal steel manufacturers have taken compact and lightweight too far? |
I don't see it that way. You want a heavy guitar, buy a heavy guitar. You want a light guitar, buy a light guitar. (They still make both!) Doesn't matter much what brand you pick, they're all pretty good nowadays.
But if your guitar is too light, it's easy enough to "heavy it up". And if it walks around too much on a smooth floor, just smear some RTV silicone on the bottom of the leg tips and let 'em dry...(no more slippy-slip).
Oh, and by the way, Erv, weight doesn't always mean great sustain. Just ask anyone that's owned an old cable Fender, or a die-board MSA. |
Donnie, I iunderstand your comments and do not disagrees with much of what you say. My concern is some of the structural things done to lighten them. For instance the threaded aluminum leg sockets. Constant looseness and wiggle can ruin them.
I have heavier made steels and I like them. To be honest, the one I take out and play most is the lighter more compact one.
I am not speaking ill of lighter made guitars. I only questioned could light weight structure be carried too far.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2023 6:57 pm
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Wayne Dahl had good time playing this 10 string 12 pound Growler pedal steel.
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Bill Fisher
From:
Oklahoma, USA
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Posted 13 Aug 2023 9:11 pm
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I agree with Erv. ANAPEG suits me.
Bill |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2023 7:41 am Re: Lightweight enough
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| Donny Hinson wrote: |
| Bill Duncan wrote: |
| Is it possible the major pedal steel manufacturers have taken compact and lightweight too far? |
I don't see it that way. You want a heavy guitar, buy a heavy guitar. You want a light guitar, buy a light guitar. (They still make both!) Doesn't matter much what brand you pick, they're all pretty good nowadays.
But if your guitar is too light, it's easy enough to "heavy it up". And if it walks around too much on a smooth floor, just smear some RTV silicone on the bottom of the leg tips and let 'em dry...(no more slippy-slip).
Oh, and by the way, Erv, weight doesn't always mean great sustain. Just ask anyone that's owned an old cable Fender, or a die-board MSA. |
I can relate having owned both old mica body MSA guitars with that body that sounded like it was made of wet newspaper, as well as several old cable job Fenders... They didn't sustain anything like most modern lightweight do, although the Fenders were not too bad really.. Better than the old MSA micas for sure.. Both were VERY stable though!... My little s10 carter, and later an ETS I had were both tiny ultra light weight steels that were more than stable enough for stage work, never an issue. Both had lovely sound and sustain as well.. Its all in the design and materials I guess..To me the trick to keep a pedal steel stable during play is not smashing the pedals down with big clumsy feet, and whacking the levers with your knees like you are trying to nail an extra point. Just need to adapt to the guitar you own, and play it like a gentleman musician, not an untrained gorilla.. I am a fairly clumsy guy, not particularly agile/nimble, but learned early on not to mash and bash a pedal steel, and it would remain nicely in place while playing it. bob
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I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 14 Aug 2023 9:15 am Re: Lightweight enough
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
. Just need to adapt to the guitar you own, and play it like a gentleman musician, not an untrained gorilla.. I am a fairly clumsy guy, not particularly agile/nimble, but learned early on not to mash and bash a pedal steel, and it would remain nicely in place while playing it. bob |
Amen to that. I never have had problems with single necks walking away from me. Maybe because I just don’t play very fast or complicated stuff.
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KEVIN MAUL: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2023 12:00 pm
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How a light guitar is set up in very important.
I got a light guitar that was set up for very short hard travel on the knee levers. The guitar wanted to dance and move every time a knee lever was engaged.
Moved a few pulls on bell cranks, Lightened and lengthened the knee lever travel, It is a much more stable guitar, Don't move like before, Joy to play.
My back thanks me every time I take it out to play too. |
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John Hyland
From:
South Australia
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Posted 14 Aug 2023 12:42 pm
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I think It is also really important to ensure all the leg lengths are adjusted perfectly to make equal contact with the floor.
The method to adjust leg length with the knurled compression aka mic stand adjustment can have its problems getting it perfect especially if playing on different and uneven surfaces all the time.
A fine adjuster on the back legs works very well and can remove a tendency to walk. |
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