Should I change my setup, or my brain?

Martin Keith · From: New York, USA

Hi Everyone,

I am a part-time steel player who is just getting back to it after some time away.
I learned to play on an Emmons S10 E9.
On that guitar, the E raises and lowers were set up on the right knee levers (RKL to lower, RKR to raise).
This is what I got used to and it feels intuitive to me now.
FWIW: before the Emmons I was briefly playing an old Sho-Bud which was set up the same way. From what I can tell this was kind of a more old-fashioned lever arrangement?

I just got a Jackson Blackjack which has the much more common setup with the E raise and lowers on the left knee.
Looking online, it seems like basically every standard setup has the E changes on the left knee.
It would take some getting used to, but I'm wondering if I should try to relearn with the E changes on the left knee, or should I just get my Jackson reworked to switch the left/right lever functions?

Basically, I guess my question is: is there some advantage to having the E changes on the left knee, that I'm currently unaware of? Seems like everyone does it that way so I'm guessing there may be a reason.

Thanks everyone!

J Fletcher · From: London,Ont,Canada

Hi Martin
Myself and many , many others lower the E's with RKL , and raise the E's with LKL . If you are comfortable with your set up , go with it . Jerry

Bill McCloskey · Posted 10 Aug 2023 4:29 am

Paul Franklin plays with E's lowered on the right leg and that is how all my steels are set up. I find it much more comfortable that way

Richard Sinkler · From: aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana

If the Jackson is easy to work on and you have the ability and confidence, change it to what you know and are comfortable with. It makes not one rat's butt bit of difference what knee they are on. The right way to set it up is whatever works for YOU.
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Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting.

Dave Grafe · From: Hudson River Valley NY

With all due respect to previous responants, adapting to E's on left knees is not that hard to do. At one point I was playing a Pro I with only two levers, i.e. both E's on the right. When I got my first D10 it was an Emmons 8+4 with E's on the left and for about a year I worked with both guitars, making the adjustment on the fly. Yes there were moments when I got crossed up but it took very little time before the shift came naturally regardless of which instrument I was playing. I cannot overstate the importance of being able to play instruments other than your own, as besides the fun involved the opportunity to sit in with new artists often leads to paying work down the road. As you will find, E>F on LKL and E>Eb on LKR compliments the Emmons pedal movements perfectly.

If I was in Alaska I might have considered E>F on LKL and E>Eb on RKL (the old ShoBud norm), as many AK steelers have gone with that atrangement in order to more easily play each others' guitars, but here in the lower 48 E's on the left is much more the standard.

One strong vote here for making the adjustment in your brain, it's not that hard and you will not regret it.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Very recent discussion about changing setups - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=393442. Yes, the Emmons Es on left is a common setup. However, a lot of players, including Paul Franklin, have E=>F on LKL and E=>Eb on RKL. And I think MSA used to put both on the right knee pretty routinely. There is no 'correct' or 'incorrect' way to do it. The seminal discussion linked there - https://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/007769.html - should make this clear.

Personally, I suggest playing the guitar as-is for a while and see how you like it. I personally prefer the Paul Franklin setup, but it took me a while to figure that out - a few years with Es on left. I also don't know how easy/hard it is to work on a Blackjack. But even if it's not easy, there are people out there who can handle it, not the least of which are the folks that built the guitar at Jackson.

Martin Keith · From: New York, USA

Thanks everyone - it's reassuring to know that more people are still doing E changes with the right knee.
I thought I was stuck in some kind of prehistoric setup.
If Paul Franklin is using it, that's especially comforting as he is kind of my hero when it comes to modern steel players.

(Side note: the late great Stu Shulman lived about 10 minutes from me.)

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I've done work on every one of Stu's guitars (here in NY). He & I both split the E's, lowering the E's on the right knee.
But either I'm misreading this or the discussion has gone in a few directions --

Re: relearning -- it can throw you but it can be done. But having more than one setup on multiple guitars? I'm not a fan.

But right at the top of this -- your Emmons raises the E's on RKR? Is that a typo or is this correct?
You will NOT find a lot of guitars setup like this. I may be mistaken but if the E raise & lower on the left knee is the Emmons setup and split knees is the Sho-Bud setup, your setup may be the MSA factory setup.
Somebody please correct me if that's not correct.

Martin Keith · From: New York, USA

Hi Jon,

Yes, RKR raises the Es and RKL lowers them on my Emmons.
This was my dad Bill's preferred setup.
I think he liked that it mirrored the bar movement for the equivalent pitch change (i.e. moving the bar left lowers the pitch, so the levers do the same). The Sho-Bud he had was set up the same way.

I agree, having two different setups would probably take more time than I have to learn. I'd like to use what little practice time I have to actually learn how to use the changes, not just how to do them.

(I'm the one who reached out to you via Facebook about reworking under this Jackson, BTW. Crazy busy here in my guitar shop but I'll get to you at some point.)

Thanks,
Martin

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I knew it was you Martin Very Happy

.
I think actually heard that Emmons once. Went to a duo performance in Cambridge MA, 1973 or so of Bill and....I've tried to figure out who....maybe Jim Kweskin? Don't know. Although I'd heard Jerry with the Riders at the Fillmore East, this would be my first time up close with a steel guitar.

No sweat about arranging the Jackson hook up. I'm not going anywhere.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

This is not a PIANO.
The Pedal Steel Guitar has been develop over the last 60-65 years, Sort of 1 pedal and Knee lever at a time. Some old guitars was set up weird, Because that was the only place left for the 4th knee lever.

It seems many guitars are set up different in different geographic areas. If a know steel player/works on steels too. And is the local Goroo. He wants, And will set the guitars he is working on, So he can play it. Also if he teaches, The students guitar is set up to match the teachers guitar.

If you do settle for E's on left knee. With the guitar set up Emmons A-B-C Left to right. Be sure the Raise E's is on your LKL, Lower E's on LKR. When you want to go 3 frets up you can engage the A pedal and raise E's in a smooth roll of foot and knee lever together. For a 7th chord, Roll foot on B pedal and lower E with LKR lever is one smooth roll together.

Good Luck with your new guitar, Happy Steelin.

Marco Schouten · From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

You won't have to relearn, just a few days 'till you are used to it. Been there, done that.
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JCH SD-10 with BL XR-16 pickup, Sho-Bud Volume Pedal, Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables, Quilter Steelaire combo

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