How hot is too hot to play?

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

We have quite a heat wave hitting us in the USA this weekend. I understand it's hot in Europe too.

I have an outdoor gig tomorrow in Jackson, CA and the high is forecast for 107 (not sure what that is in Celsius), just as we are unloading and sound checking. When we play it will be a bit cooler, but only by a few degrees.

I really wish the venue would cancel. The audience will also be outside in the heat. I bet it will be a small turnout. I hope they have an ambulance on standby.

I'll bring a pop-up and lots of water, but this is really ridiculous in my opinion.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Andrew Roblin · From: Various places

Does the contract require the client to provide a shaded performance site?

Given the increase in dangerously hot days, it would be a good idea to add these and other temperature-related terms to your group's contracts.

For instance, you can have a clause saying the show must be cancelled or rescheduled (with appropriate payment) if the temperature exceeds a level you think is unhealthy. Say, 85 degrees.

When I was working fulltime, 1990-2015, my contracts for outdoor shows always required the client to provide "a dry, shaded performance site within 20 feet of a grounded electrical outlet."

One hot day, a client did not comply. I left the job and received payment in full. I didn't work there again, but that was okay with me.

Deaths caused by working in dangerous heat are increasing. It makes sense to protect yourself.

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I've not been to this venue, but photos do show shade on the stage. I'm not sure if that will be the case when we are loading in.

I'm not privy to the band's contracts.

I suppose it could be worse: Las Vegas will be about ten degrees hotter tomorrow. Phoenix will be 118.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Andrew Roblin · From: Various places

You have the right to set the terms under which you work with this group.

You can have a contract with the group leader including the clauses needed to protect yourself.

No gig is worth a health problem.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I had a dangerous episode a few years ago ('only' 95 °F but with very little shade) where my legs were so wobbly as I loaded out to my car to head home that I knew I was right on the edge of physical distress. I made it home and I took care of myself but I knew that it would not have taken much more to put me into the 'heat exhaustion' or 'heat stroke' zone. I have not formulated specific personal rules about this but I am a lot more cognizant of health and hazards. If no one else is looking out for me, I damn sure have to.
I hope you find a smart answer, hopefully with the help and understanding of venue people and band mates.

Michael Sawyer · From: North Carolina, USA

We play in a cove on a floating dock on the 29th.
On the NC - VA line.At 2 PM.
Last year it was 93 degrees,70% humidity.
I question my sanity.

Mitch Ellis · From: Collins, Mississippi USA

Here in south Mississippi, 70 percent of the time it's either hot, raining, very humid, or all three. The weather here is very unpredictable. I don't like backing out at the last minute, but I don't like my gear getting wet either. And I don't like playing or singing with sweat pouring off of me, or shivering from a cold front that caught everybody by surprise. So to save everybody a problem, I just refuse outdoor gigs up front.

Mitch

Jim Arnold · From: Texas USA

Played a gig last year,outdoors and it was 102 with humidity at 65%. Probably a little hotter when I loaded out. We had small fans on stage with us,they helped, but I sweated so much, the neck on my Sho~Bud was soaked. My left hand could barely control the bar. Picks were nearly impossible to keep on. My shirt looked like I had run through a sprinkler.
Needless to say but, playing in Texas, outdoors, in the summer,ain't for wimps.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

I live down at the southern tip of Texas. No way will we play out in the sun, with the brutal heat we have had. We do play outdoor gigs, often out on someone's ranch, and will set up in late afternoon sun. When we do that, I take a couple of white shower curtain liners with me. After setting up my equipment, one goes over the guitar and seat and the other goes over the amp. The guitar, the seat, and the amp are all black. The white covers make a big difference, keeping my equipment clean and sorta cool until we start playing in the evening.

High temperatures and high humidity can be dangerous for your body and your equipment.
_________________
Lee, from South Texas - Down On The Rio Grande

There are only two options as I see it.
Either I'm right, or there is a sinister conspiracy to conceal the fact that I'm right.

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Sarno FreeLoader, Goodrich Passive Volume Pedals, Vintage ACE Pack-A-Seat

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

It's a dry heat in the Sierra Foothills. But 107 is still brutal.

I don't really want to do this gig, but feel I can't back out at the last minute, and apparently others in the band think it's an important gig. I think we will be playing to a lot of empty chairs.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Dave Hopping · From: Aurora, Colorado

I looked Jackson up. Not much rain at all in the summer, but a creek runs through town, so there will probably be some humidity. Might be a good idea to pick up one of those 20 inch box fans on the way to work, and maybe a styrofoam ice chest with a couple of bags of ice for the fan to blow over, plenty of ice water, a few bar towels,and perhaps some salt tablets just in case. Heatstroke is nothing to fool with.

107 Fahrenheit is about 42 Celsius; hot enough to justify walking away if you feel unsafe.Since we're legally independent sub-contractors rather than employees, we bear the responsibility if something bad happens; better to lose a gig than the alternative.

Duane Becker · From: Elk,Wa 99009 USA

I wouldn't play in extremem temps above 90, especially in the sun, but shade also. Lately I've had to play in situtations where either hot temperatures and even rain with the attitude being, the show must go on.
I have metal necks on my Emmons, actually gets pretty warm to touch and hard to even play it, plus going out of tune. Last year, I did arrive to an outdoor gig in Spokane, Washington only to find the stage in the sun with the shade tarp up but not covering the sun's angle. The temps were 94 and low humidity. I respectivly told the band leader, because of my older age and having to set in the sun I wasn't going to play, guitar player heard me and agreeed. In the end without two band members, we didn't play and the event was cancelled due to weather. This play regardless of weather conditons I think is a trend now, we as musicians need to put our foot down and refuse to play...and I'm saying this with my only income being music. But what is more important.

Jim Arnold · From: Texas USA

Hi Duane,I understand what your saying, but I only have so many opportunities to play and I'm taking advantage of them all. My playing days are fast coming to an end,I'm 70 now and the hardest part is loading and unloading equipment. Ice water, a good box fan and shade are essential. Hope alls good in your part of the world.

Rick Campbell · From: Sneedville, TN, USA

Paul,

I used to visit that area quite often working with the silica sand mine in Ione. I certainly understand how hot that can be. If I was out there, I'd come watch you play, and bring my cooler full of Gatorade, etc...

RC

Paul Sutherland · From: Placerville, California

I survived but I'm really beat. It topped out at about 105 as we were setting up. It was 100 when we actually started performing and about 85 when we quit.

There was shade on the stage and lots of cold water bottles. It wasn't as bad as I was fearing, but I sure don't want to repeat this anytime soon.

The turnout of paying customers was modest. I suspect the venue lost money on this event, but the band got paid.
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It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

Jon Light · From: Saugerties, NY

I forgot to mention....too late now, but as future advice --
I have a good friend who is an endurance runner. 100 mile stuff. When I told him of my ordeal & close call he told me "V8". He said forget about Gatorade and other stuff that bought its way into our general consciousness. He swears by V8. I'm not qualified to make an informed assessment but I do not disregard my friend's level head or the hundreds of miles under the crazy son of a bitch's feet.
He emails me now before every hot summer gig with that simple message.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

After fourteen Summer seasons in Medora's Musical - held in an amphitheater where performers and spectators alike were exposed to whatever the weather threw at us - I found that, in North Dakota, that can be anything.

If the Foundation and/or the producer had had to comply with any constraints regarding temperature, the whole Summer would have lost them money through cancellations. The only time a show got 'called' was when lightning was near. The only concession to the heat would be the welcome announcement from the SM: 'You can perform without hats, and sleeves can be rolled up.' Sad

In my first year there (2002) we were in the final run-down. One night, the onstage temperature dropped to below 40 degrees! I can't describe the effect the numbing cold had upon me but, suffice to say (and long after I'd passed the stage where playing was impossible for me). I did the unthinkable and left the stage for the 'relative comfort' of the band-room. The SM and various Foundation reps came to see what might be wrong with me (along with a paramedic) but their jaws dropped when I announced that I simply was not prepared to work in such extreme conditions.

I suppose my age was a factor but I was only 60 at the time. The cast were slightly better off because of their constant movement (dancing, choreography, etc.) but the band were required to sit motionless. The young guys moaned a bit but dealt with it better than I did.

I was surprised when I was asked back! I learned to ignore the company rules about either adding several layers or doing what I could to combat the heat. I confess that I became inured to it eventually.

We only performed in the evening when the Sun had lost its power; on the rare occasions when we were required to do an afternoon gig of some sort, I got to experience just how dangerously hot that amphitheater could get in direct sunlight. The ND crowds are a hardy lot, though - it was hard enough to imagine how they'd willingly sit there in either triple-digit, or almost sub-zero, temperatures - but paying good money to do so???? Sad

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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Fred Treece · From: California, USA

Paul, I have a gig in Copperopolis Square coming up next month. I don’t do well in the heat, so 5-6 hours of 100°+ is out of the question. I will keep an eye on the forecast and give the bandleader notice ahead of time.

Nobody’s show is important enough for me to get heat stroke. I think you had every right to bow out of that Jackson gig. This weather is just getting stupid, especially for us over-60yo types! I pretty much scratch July from my calendar now.

Lee Baucum · From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier

Jason Aldean recently suffered a heat stroke on stage.

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local/jason-aldean-suffers-heat-stroke-during-hartford-show-ends-concert-early/3067541/

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

too hot is too personal .

For me I've done two summer outdoor shows over the last two weeks. I told my friend ( band leader) that I am not playing anymore outdoor shows until maybe mid Sept. Should he book a show he needs to get a fill in. I literally can't play when its hot and humid and it shows. I'm talkin high 80's going into the 90's. I'm in North Carolina so it can be brutal.

I'm also on medication full time for Prostate Cancer ( Eligard) so for certain that amplifies the situation.
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Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years

CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

I'm still suffering the past ill effects of heat stroke and skin rash from several outdoor shows in the summer. That changed my attitude about outdoor gigs. I was less than 60 years old then. The lower temp shows below 50 degrees makes my hands stiffen and cramp. I no longer do any of these. Learning my lesson too late in life I wish I had this wisdom back then.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Referring again to my Medora gig and its extremes-of-temperature, once it dropped to the 40s, I was unable to play a note. Loss of bar-control, picks falling off, etc., contributed but all my energy was focused on trying to summon warmth from some inner resource.

I tried cutting the fingers off woolen gloves, but the cold was so insidious that it was my core-temperature that prevented me functioning.

I don't care for the really hot weather; while I do live in FL, that wasn't by choice, more dictated by circumstances. The only time I'm out in the sun is to walk from my front door to my car. Early-morning dog-walking is just muggy and unpleasant right before the sun rises. There are no visits to the beach (a mile away) for me.

I recall a promo gig where we had to perform a few tunes from a show that was sponsored by a local Credit Union. The performers used a makeshift stage, the band set up on the asphalt parking-lot. The sun was directly overhead and a combination of 100 degree heat and my then-280 pound weight drove the tubular legs of my steel-seat almost three inches into the surface!

They had to find a square of plywood which solved the problem. Mercifully, the 'set' was only 15 minutes long so we were soon back indoors, Any longer, and I fear the heat would have affected me badly.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Further to Tony's remarks about medications, my dialysis/nephrology team advise against extended exposure to the sun. Dialysis, apparently and for all the good things it does, takes certain properties from the blood that protect a normally-healthy person from direct sunlight.

I didn't need telling twice! That's the main reason my golf clubs have been in the shed for two years now.
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Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Marc Muller · From: Neptune,NJ USA

This discussion is finally hitting the boards on all social media, whether musicians or different sports like cycling, running, golf. 10 years ago I worked hard Jan/Feb to secure outdoor summer gigs here at the Jersey shore, as it was prime money making time. 5 years ago more and more were getting canceled due to weather and they stopped paying you, or making up the gig. So, you were out income. In 2019 I lost 60% of my summer work due to rain and heat. I actually had an indoor gig get canceled because it was so hot the AC indoors couldn't keep up and it was sweltering inside!

I no longer book outdoor work, other than the big $ outdoor festival shows with my Dead band, in which we've done 1 this season and it rained like a monsoon. We played anyway as it was on a large covered stage.

Hate that climate change is a corporate/political discussion rather than just the scientific one it actually is. There are things we can do as regular citizens, to a very small degree. The only change is when industry makes major changes whereas the government will follow suit. Even the gov't can't make any substantial difference until big biz does.

This is a pic from a summer show from a few years back. We didn't notice what was coming up from behind us. 3rd song in all hell broke loose. I swear you can see the devil himself in the cloud! Stay cool!

Dick Wood · From: Springtown Texas, USA

I've played numerous HOT outdoor gigs where I was soo miserable I could scream. I've just decided it's not worth it no matter what it pays. As a side note, I played an outdoor gig in Oklahoma last year that was soo hot my Peterson tuner quit working. No more for me.
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Cops aren't paid much so I steel at night.

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