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Topic: Pull-release E-lever returning flat |
Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 25 Jun 2023 9:27 pm |
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I believe that it is somewhat typical for an E lever to return slightly flat, needing a push on the F-lever to bring it back to pitch...at least, that is my limited experience with a couple of past all-pull instruments.
I now have a Maverick HD (6-string, if that matters), in which the E lever is a pull-release, with a return spring, which is a new thing to me.... It is only a few months old...
Where to look to see if the flat return is something that could be improved?
-just lubricate the changer, nut, etc. (although the steel is quite new)
-add some tension to the pull-release return spring?
-???
Or just get used to it?
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 26 Jun 2023 3:59 am
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Actually all-pull lower returns tend to be sharp -- this is the 'hysteresis' thing. If an all-pull returns flat, something is wrong and is often a simple fix.
I do maintenance on a friend's 10 string Jackson Maverick. I think it is a fairly recently model....2021, maybe? Maverick discussions can get squirrely because of a lot of evolution of the Mav design. People end up describing the tech of one that does not apply to another.
I spent a lot of time with his E lower returning flat issue.
Unfortunately it has been a while and I am not confident that I am remembering things accurately.
Here is a pic of the return springs on his guitar.
My first actions were to tighten the springs. Seemed like a no-brainer. Then I tightened them more. Then I tightened the bejesus out of them. None of this worked. You could see the fingers aligned up before I started and returning aligned after I raised the string. Lower the string and they returned a bit out of line, settling right with a manual nudge.
This guitar was pretty new. No sludge.
I noticed that there was enough play in the way the cross shaft sat in its brackets that the more I tightened the springs, the more this energy was going into skewing the cross shaft in the bracket. I relaxed the springs until the shaft wasn't skewing any more.
This helped....at least it helped reverse the process of my making the situation worse. In the end, I think I improved things a little. But I never solved the problem.
I needed to get the guitar back into his hands so I showed him the issue (that he had not noticed) and told him that if it starts bothering him, a quick flick of the F lever will line things up back in tune.
I expect that I will go back in, the next time he brings me the guitar for a string change and check-up. It seems like something that should easily be solved but in two maintenance visits, a lot of attention yielded no revelations.
Note -- I have my own reasons for avoiding going to the source (Jackson) for a solution but I definitely recognize that that's what I should do and I probably will in the future. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2023 10:46 am
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More info for thought..
(by the way, I called Dawn a week ago and she hasn't called back as yet, just tried again)
Both high and low E strings go flat by about the same amount...not much, but enough to be audible.
The pull train moves smoothly and seats completely when lever is returned from the lower. Pushing it to seat more firmly has no effect. So that indicates that the spring isn't the issue.
It only takes a tiny tap on the raise to get it back to in-tune. Just barely moving the finger a tiny amount, then letting go.
Pushing on the string above the nut raises it but when released it goes back to flat.
Letting the lower lever snap back seems to help a little bit but not all the way...still needs a tap on the raise.
So I guess it must be some slack somewhere in the changer mechanism that leaves it flat...maybe making it exact would bind the changer somewhere and there had to be slack? Not evident on a raise, slack must be on other side of the finger somehow...
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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richard burton
From:
Britain
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Posted 26 Jun 2023 11:22 am
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| It seems to me that the culprit could be the cross shaft (the one that lowers the E's) is flexing slightly when it come back to neutral after being activated |
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Steve Lipsey
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 26 Jun 2023 11:36 am
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I don't think it is the cross shaft - they are quite substantial, and pulling on the bell cranks to make up for any slop doesn't fix it. But I could be wrong, of course...not sure where flex could creep in...that wouldn't be just a permanent part of the system and not change for every use...
The shaft allows some movement side-to-side - they all have some slack where their pins go into the mounting plates - but seems quite solid otherwise.
_________________
https://www.lostsailorspdx.com
Williams S10s, Milkman Pedal Steel Mini & "The Amp"
Ben Bonham Resos, 1954 Oahu Diana, 1936 Oahu Parlor |
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