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Topic: BIAB - Borrowed Angel |
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 13 Feb 2023 4:26 am |
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Here's Borrowed Angel, tracked in 2016. The Drums, Bass and AC guitars , left and right, are from BIAB imported into Pro Tools.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qcC7o0r4HA
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jim Fogle
From:
North Carolina, Winston-Salem, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2023 3:55 pm
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Tony,
Sounds very nice. Borrowed Angel is one of my favorite songs.
_________________
Remembering Harold Fogle (1945-1999) Pedal Steel Player
Dell laptop Win 10, i3, 8GB, 480GB
2024 BiaB UltraPlus PAK
Cakewalk by Bandlab software & Zoom MRS-8 hardware DAWs
Zoom MRS-8 8 Track Hardware DAW |
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Joseph Murray
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2023 2:15 pm
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Nice work!
_________________
SD 12U Fessenden
50's National Chicagoan
American B-Bender
Taylor 816
Headlamp and tongue blade |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 14 Feb 2023 9:51 pm
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Good job Tony!
RC |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 15 Feb 2023 2:09 am
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Thx gents - I hesitantly posted this to show that BIAB , in its simplicity, can indeed create a track for various purposes. This certainly is not "retail" worthy but to my ears very acceptable. Typically I would only use the Drum track and play everything else "LIVE" , but in this case I decided to put BIAB to a further test.
Finding the proper drum pattern without being overly aggressive with too many odd fills, is key #1. I lean towards less is more. The Bass pattern is a bit easier as BIAB often has several of the same beats with some Bass variations. The other thing I look for is the TWO accompaniment tracks. These can be hit or miss. Once the BIAB tracks were acceptable, each one was sent to the DAW , instruments were mono but the drum track remained stereo.
BIAB can be a fine tool, but its not perfect and it may take some time to get the "arrangement" that we want.
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jim Fogle
From:
North Carolina, Winston-Salem, USA
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Posted 16 Feb 2023 12:48 pm
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| Tony Prior wrote: |
Thx gents - I hesitantly posted this to show that BIAB , in its simplicity, can indeed create a track for various purposes. This certainly is not "retail" worthy but to my ears very acceptable. Typically I would only use the Drum track and play everything else "LIVE" , but in this case I decided to put BIAB to a further test.
Finding the proper drum pattern without being overly aggressive with too many odd fills, is key #1. I lean towards less is more. The Bass pattern is a bit easier as BIAB often has several of the same beats with some Bass variations. The other thing I look for is the TWO accompaniment tracks. These can be hit or miss. Once the BIAB tracks were acceptable, each one was sent to the DAW , instruments were mono but the drum track remained stereo.
BIAB can be a fine tool, but its not perfect and it may take some time to get the "arrangement" that we want. |
I appreciate you posting the song and your follow up.
I agree finding the right backing instruments is a key element to using Band-in-a-Box. Musicians playing together on stage or in the studio listen to what other band members are playing and respond to what is heard. Trying to bring that feeling of cohesiveness within Band-in-a-Box can be a challenge. Some of the tools PG Music has added to the program like partial track regeneration and the capability to edit RealTracks, RealDrums and MIDI SuperTracks does make it somewhat easier to get what you want. The upgrade audio editor also helps but it still requires a good bit of work, skill and creative ability to get there.
I'm curious about finishing the song in your DAW. What work do you perform in your DAW that you choose not to do in Band-in-a-Box and why? Is it a matter of DAW familiarity and convenience, the workflow you're accustomed to or Band-in-a-Box doesn't offer some features you use in your DAW. I ask because it seems many of the newer Band-in-a-Box features are trying to convince people to edit and mix in Band-in-a-Box. The refrain of "take it to my DAW" is posted a lot in the PG Music forum but for most people it seems that that is because they have a workflow that works for them and the workflow existed before PG Music added the editing upgrades.
_________________
Remembering Harold Fogle (1945-1999) Pedal Steel Player
Dell laptop Win 10, i3, 8GB, 480GB
2024 BiaB UltraPlus PAK
Cakewalk by Bandlab software & Zoom MRS-8 hardware DAWs
Zoom MRS-8 8 Track Hardware DAW |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 20 Feb 2023 3:19 am
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| Jim Fogle wrote: |
I'm curious about finishing the song in your DAW. What work do you perform in your DAW that you choose not to do in Band-in-a-Box and why? |
Good question !
For me its about note conflicts. When I have an idea , I arrange for the lead parts or melody. If I happen to come across some BIAB parts without note conflicts, I use them. Its about the clean pallet. If one of the BIAB parts has extra notes or embellishments, I'll make the decision to just play it live , not only will it be faster but it will also won't have extra notes !
Regarding any or all BIAB tracks, they get moved into the DAW as is , each instrument to a dedicated DAW track. Panning, gain, processing etc is done to each individual track.
My session tracks are pretty simplistic overall, the arrangement has already been done in BIAB, now its just a choice of using the BIAB instruments , or reverting to playing the parts live. As I stated earlier, the #1 goal is to write a useable BIAB drum track, which may require going into the BIAB drum editor to make a few changes as well. If a few of the other instruments come along for the ride then its a good day!
Hope this helps ! Its a rather simple basic process, at least to me ! 
tp
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website
Last edited by Tony Prior on 22 Feb 2023 8:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jim Fogle
From:
North Carolina, Winston-Salem, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2023 11:34 am
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Tony,
Thanks a lot for your response. Note conflicts can be an issue when using Band-in-a-Box. It seems to me the more sparse or simple you try to make your arrangement the more likely you will encounter note conflicts using Band-in-a-Box.
I've noticed numerous members of this forum, the PG Music forum and other music forums I visit play multiple instruments and utilize their talents and skills to create outstanding original and cover song compositions. This forum, more so than the other forums, seems to have more current or former professional musicians capable of showcasing more than one instrument. The capability to record multiple instruments overcomes the strain of trying to obtain from Band-in-a-Box the "perfect" arrangement for every instrument.
PG Music has obviously heard the complaint about RealTracks being too busy. They've added two features, simple variations and natural arrangement to address that specific complaint. They've also added Playable RealTracks and Playable RealDrums to make it somewhat easier to obtain exactly what you want.
Simple variation is a setting that designates specific RealTrack audio that is available for playback selection when the setting is enabled. Not all RealTracks have simple variation audio or a RealTrack may not include specific chords. When those issues arise, track audio is muted. Simple variation can be set by track or by song.
Natural arrangement is an ill defined program setting that can set and forget or used on a song-by-song basis. I call it ill defined because PG Music has never really explained how the feature affects how the program arranges songs. Here is the explanation available in BiaB's help file:
| Quote: |
| Natural Arrangements (re-interpret complex chords): If you give a pro musician a complicated chord progression with fancy extensions like C7b9b13 or Gm11, the musician may reinterpret these rather than playing them exactly as written. This can achieve a much better sounding arrangement because the musician has freedom to choose from similar chord extensions. You can get Band-in-a-Box to do the same thing with this option for all tracks in all songs |
Two notable features are playable RealTracks and Playable RealDrums. Both of these use instrument samples and the notation window to be able to notate what is played on a track down to 1/16th note precision. While I don't think anyone will notate a whole song this does give BiaB users a way to create riffs, turnarounds or bridges that last for only a few bars.
_________________
Remembering Harold Fogle (1945-1999) Pedal Steel Player
Dell laptop Win 10, i3, 8GB, 480GB
2024 BiaB UltraPlus PAK
Cakewalk by Bandlab software & Zoom MRS-8 hardware DAWs
Zoom MRS-8 8 Track Hardware DAW |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2023 9:31 pm
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Jim and Tony,
I'm still trying to get the band to understand that there is the 6 chord in Borrowed Angel.
RC |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 22 Feb 2023 8:09 am
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| Rick Campbell wrote: |
Jim and Tony,
I'm still trying to get the band to understand that there is the 6 chord in Borrowed Angel.
RC |
Rick, there's a 6 chord in Borrowed Angel ? 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jim Fogle
From:
North Carolina, Winston-Salem, USA
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Posted 22 Feb 2023 5:53 pm Six Chords In Borrowed Angel?
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Rick and Tony,
I only hear five chords.  
_________________
Remembering Harold Fogle (1945-1999) Pedal Steel Player
Dell laptop Win 10, i3, 8GB, 480GB
2024 BiaB UltraPlus PAK
Cakewalk by Bandlab software & Zoom MRS-8 hardware DAWs
Zoom MRS-8 8 Track Hardware DAW |
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Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
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Posted 23 Feb 2023 1:05 am Re: Six Chords In Borrowed Angel?
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| Jim Fogle wrote: |
Rick and Tony,
I only hear five chords. |
And I only know 3 chords ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
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Jim Fogle
From:
North Carolina, Winston-Salem, USA
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Posted 25 Feb 2023 12:05 pm
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All these responses should make everyone glad the song doesn't have 9th or 11th chord extensions!
_________________
Remembering Harold Fogle (1945-1999) Pedal Steel Player
Dell laptop Win 10, i3, 8GB, 480GB
2024 BiaB UltraPlus PAK
Cakewalk by Bandlab software & Zoom MRS-8 hardware DAWs
Zoom MRS-8 8 Track Hardware DAW |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 26 Feb 2023 1:40 am
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| Jim Fogle wrote: |
| All these responses should make everyone glad the song doesn't have 9th or 11th chord extensions! |
That's way above my pay grade.
RC |
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Larry Dering
From:
Missouri, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2023 6:32 am
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| Nice track and good job. Thanks Tony |
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Rick Campbell
From:
Sneedville, TN, USA
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Posted 28 Apr 2023 7:08 am
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The reason you never hear the intro and turnaround to Borrowed Angel like the Mel Street recording is because the recording was steel and FIDDLE. Just saying.
RC |
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