G# strings pulling unevenly

Steven Golding · From: New York, USA

My 6th and 3rd stings on my B pedal are not pulling evenly on my Zum D10. String 3 seems to respond to any pressure from my foot, while string 5 needs a little more pressure to engage.

When I strike the strings together and engage the B pedal, the tunning makes for a bit of dissonance sound unless I engage the pedal quickly.

Is this a common thing with pedal steels because of the tension differences in string gauge?

What would be a good way to fix the issues if necessary? Changing the rodding in the changer or bell crank?

Appreciate any help.

Paul Brainard · From: Portland OR

It's actually not that uncommon for these two to be out of sync, you can time them to pull together but it's a bit of a compromise in the overall feel & some folks prefer to leave them out of sync.

But essentially to get them in sync, you need to either move your 6th string pull further in on the bellcrank toward the s cross-shaft, or the 3rd string farther out, or some combination of the two. You may need to switch to different changer holes as well, if you get an over-tuning issue or rods crossing underneath.

You might try a plain 6th string first (assuming you have a wound one on there now,) that may be part of the solution as well & will affect the leverages too. In fact it may have been set up for one or the other and you just have the opposite on there now. . .

I don't know if Bruce has a standard rodding chart but I know Williams and Carter do, those are good places to start to get an idea of how to set these up. As I recall the Carter one will leave them a little out of sync, but that is kind of the "old fashioned" way. They had a "gear-down" option using an additional intermediary pull to time them together, but usually you can get them to do it without that.

EDIT - just noticed you said 3rd & 5th, I assume you meant 6th? But if you are pulling 5 to G# then there is more to figure out here!

Steven Golding · From: New York, USA

Lol, yes, I meant to say 6 and 3.

Hey Paul.

I re-rodding the guitar myself, converting it from Day to Emmons. I used a Carter chart, which makes sense based on what you have said. Maybe I'll email Bruce and see if he go-to the rodding chart.

Thanks for the help

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Getting that rodding chart is certainly the best start. Meanwhile:
It is common that the 3rd string needs a lot of pull to get to pitch -- much more than the 6th. Especially an unwound 6th. A wound 6th will require more pull than a plain string.
I'm not advocating -- just covering some facts.

In terms of changing rodding -- think of it as the 6th string is currently too efficient with the choice of bellcrank hole/slot and has to wait for a bit while the 3rd string moves, before it needs to start moving. So you would want to actually make the 6th string pull less efficient. This means moving the rod to a hole/slot that is closer to the cross shaft. This, alone, might be bring the two into sync.

Steven Golding · From: New York, USA

Thank you Jon.

You're in Saugerties? I'm in Albany not too many people playing PSG around here.

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Yeah Steven -- there's a (small) number of players here in the mid-Hudson Valley and lower Hudson area. We don't cross paths often but we're here.

Jack Stoner · From: Kansas City, MO

The best suggestion is to find a rodding chart and connect/reconnect the factory settings. Builders go to great lengths to get it right. Point, I was having trouble pedaling A and B on a Frankln (my fault due to neuropathy not the guitar). I changed things several times without success, went back to the factory rodding and found it the best.

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

WEll most the pedal steels I set up(over 100 of them so far in 25 years after restoration/refurbish or redo mech.) owner says he HAS to have a plain string on the 6th cuz he lowers it a whole tone....Ok so'be'it(I don't use plain; I use wound); but never the less I can get them timed out pretty dang close; even on steels that only have double raise/single lower Changer and two hole pullers...here's how.
OK; you need to have the 3rd string move more quick and and the 6th to move more slow.
So I use .012p(make sure its either a Jagwire or D 'Addario NYXL and it won't break like all the other brands) and use a .020p for 6th.
To help speed up the 3rd...tighten the lower return spring(if adjustable with screw at endplate) all the way since you're not lowering it and leave little raise spring on that hooks to bracket on body of guitar.> Now that raise section will move fastest that way and a little shorter throw with .012p.
Now; the 6th; take OFF the raise spring...as you don't want the 6th to raise quicker; you want it slower. and loosen the lower return spring so it BARELY returns from lowering.
Now push your B pedal and listen how much closer they move together after fine-tuning....yeeeehaaaaa....
Ricky
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Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Small plain strings have to travel farther to reach a note than a larger plain string. To reach same note. If the 6th string is wound it becomes more tricky, Because the core wire is what sets its travel to each note.

If you are in a hurry or can not get a Zum Rodding Chart.

Back Off, The nylon tuning nut on the 6th string, Till no pull.

Tune the 3rd string open (G#) and move the rods in the Changer holes and Bell Crank holes and Stops needed to get pull to note (A).

Then to 6th string, Tune open (G#) Then, Shove B Pedal down, Move pull rods in Changer and Bell Crank holes until
The 6th string tunes to (A) . (The bell crank hole should be 3/8 to 1/2 inch Closer to The Cross Shaft in the Bell Crank, When compared to the 3rd String Bell Crank.

With less travel on the larger string, Should tune within 3rd string Stops, With no adjustment.

Good Luck on setting the guitar up, Happy Steelin. bj

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

what Bobby says above !

As you already know, its a physics thing as the two strings are different in size, and you may have to accept a small compromise. Pick the string you like the travel on, then change the bell crank rod pull position on "the other one" 1 position at a time until you get to where they are close. It may take a few minutes, trial and error .
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J D Sauser · From: Wellington, Florida

If you use a o.o22 plain middle G#, which is borderline understrung, the pressure and travel are the lowest on that tuning, while the near breaking point strumg high G# needs a lot of stretching (=travel) to be raised a little over a half step (“a little over” because most tune G# as E’s Maj. 3rd JI about 11 cents flat and A “on the money as the new root to A6th).
Some builders install a movement reduction for the middle G# to “ballance” both pulls to go up simultaneously and free of a cluttery staggerd pedal feel.

If you’d use a o.o22 WOUND, on the middle G#, both strings would need a long throw and are aesier to “ballance”.

Really, since this is only a half step pull with no usable point in between, most don’t botther much about this issue, unlike on the C-Pedal where you pull two adjacent strings a whole step and SOME are pivky enough to feel that they’d need both strings to be in tune with each other at half the travel (up a half step), and sine both these strings have a seizable amount of travel, on a guitar with enough slots on the bell cranks this can pretty much be achieved. I have sinchronized P7 ajacent pulls on all my C6th guitars. It can be done on this long throw pulls.

… JD.
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Steven Golding · From: New York, USA

Thanks yall for the responses and advice.

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