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Topic: What Steel Is This ? |
Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 13 Apr 2023 2:30 pm |
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This was brought to me. Here are some facts and some observations:
It is a permanent (pullers are welded to the cross shafts)
It is pull-release
It uses some lateral swivels (ala ZB?)
It is very well made. Nothing about it says home workshop.
It is strung consistent with Universal gauges.
It is not nearly as rough looking as the photos make it appear.
9-10 rods are in the case and there's a bag of small parts.
This is going to be fun, trying to figure the rodding. Oy.
The pullers being permanent, there will be strong logic to guide me but I already have a headache. I'll get there. No rush.
The owner (a really fine mando player) says that the A & B pedals worked pretty ok but a rod snapped and he put it down and figured it better get it looked at before anything else bad happened. Super excellent convergence of events had us meet and share a stage last weekend and after some conversation here we are.
What on earth is this?
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 13 Apr 2023 2:34 pm
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And btw, previous owner wasn't a bum. Quality gear.
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 13 Apr 2023 4:41 pm
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It looks like a well planned homemade. Pedals are ShoBud or early Sierra?
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Revelation preamp, Carbon Copy Delay and Hall Of Fame Reverb, Crown XLS 1002, 2- 12" Eminence BP 122 speakers, ShoBud Pedal, Effects Pedals. 1949 Epiphone D-8. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2023 8:01 pm
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I would say it is home built guitar. Looks like a lot of effort was put into the Cabinet, Changer, Key Head and pulls.
Back in late 1960's early 1970's, Before The EPA set much stronger air pollution laws there was some small foundries who had masters and made End plates, Pedal bars, Pedals, Key heads and Changer/pickup frames. For US guys wanting to build a pedal steel guitar. Those Open Gear Grovers looked neat back then. I got mine built to A-B-C pedals on E9th neck was as far as I got. Played it instead of finish the rest of the guitar.
That was the Era Sho-Bud built the Permanent with welded Bell Cranks on the Cross rod. That many of us used for a pattern.
I built my cross rods with a small flat and bell cranks had a set screw so I could move and change them.
Those pictures brings back memories of my build. |
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Mark Perrodin
From:
Tucson Arizona, USA
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Posted 13 Apr 2023 8:42 pm
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| not sure what it is but i want it. i love the oddball and mutant steels. |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 4:07 am
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The reason I thought someone might recognize it as a 'branded' steel is simply that you so often see home made guitars that obviously look home made. This is so well done. I'll need to see if I can learn anything from the owner about its source. He picked it up at a nice price.
This is gonna kick my butt. Pull release is my weakest fluency. I have to work hard trying to remember everything I know about them (which ain't much). Push pull and all pull are much simpler in my mind. But I expect that it will reveal its secrets once I get started.
My favorite thing about working on a guitar that hasn't seen a dust cloth in lord knows how long is that simple clean up with some naphtha and elbow grease makes for some killer before & after photos.
If I run into problems rodding this to a universal setup (and just the fact that it's got Uni strings on it does not necessarily mean that it was rodded as such -- new owner could have just bought the set and put them on.....otoh that's a lot of pedals for an Ext. E9....) -- I will consider setting it up as an Ext. E9 with some do-nothing pedals. It's what I may have recommended to this beginner anyway, since he did not buy it with the specific concept of Uni in his mind. |
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David Ball
From:
North Carolina High Country
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 5:43 am
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I think the lateral swivels are probably for lowers. Some of the older Sho Bud permanents do their lowers this way as do some Marlens and other pull/release instruments. Very cool old guitar!
Dave |
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Jim Palenscar
From:
Oceanside, Calif, USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 6:39 am
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| Miller? |
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Mitch Ellis
From:
Collins, Mississippi USA
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 7:02 am
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I don't think it's a homemade steel although I don't know what it is. 
Mitch |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 10:00 am
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A few more pics.
The bad news -- I'm in over my head. This is the first steel I ever completely failed with. I mean, I never even got started. To get from that pile of rods & connectors to a functioning steel......I can't even see how to get two pulls on the A pedal, two pulls on the B pedal......
I hate to give up but I know the feeling when you just have to cut your line and let it swim away -- this is not going to get reeled in. The number of hours it would take to *maybe* get some insight will exceed the value of the guitar. And I was not even thinking about $$ in the first place....I wanted a new friend's guitar to be a good axe to learn on.
Rats.
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 10:08 am
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That headstock looks kinda/sorta like a "pi" symbol.
~Lee |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 10:11 am
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| Lee Baucum wrote: |
That headstock looks kinda/sorta like a "pi" symbol.
~Lee |
Indeed. "Pi are steel" was my instagram post title for this guitar. |
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Tom Jordan
From:
Wichita, KS
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 10:56 am
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Jon,
Yep, this one is a challenge since we really have no idea of what it should have been before it got in that state. Also, the rodding is old and may not be related to modern rodding preferences. It is a twelve string though and very cool!
If you start a pedal A, it looks like a single belcrank with a ZB style "yoke" for running two rods. That is doable but a crude way of doing it. Looking at the other end near the changer, it looks like the same setup is used to reverse the pull of a single rod.
I don't blame you for passing on it since it would be a tough way to make a living but I bet a lot of us would just want to tear into it and see if we coud make it work!
Thanks for sharing,
Tom |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 11:10 am
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Thanks for the comment Tom.
I have taken it for granted that if I muck around with a steel for a little bit, "it" will come to me. It has never failed me.
Until now.
You are exactly correct that even if this were a more 'conventionally' built steel, it still requires getting into the mind of the builder and the possibility that his setup was not totally 'standard' (whatever that might mean) just adds degrees of difficulty.
I was just speaking with the owner and we had a bit of a laugh because he had messed around underneath it for a bit before giving up. Unfortunately that meant that he pulled most of the rods. He realizes now that if he had brought it to me a lot more intact, MUCH would have been apparent regarding the setup and how it was achieved.
Presented as a pile of parts.......
I just might have a steel for him to get going with, as something dropped into my lap just this morning and it could be a perfect match. |
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Bengt Erlandsen
From:
Brekstad, NORWAY
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 12:05 pm
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@Jon Light
| Quote: |
| otoh that's a lot of pedals for an Ext. E9 |
My Zumsteel S12extE9 have 7 pedals and 7 knee levers so the 6 pedals you have there seem to be all good to me
It would be a little extra work to setup a pull/release guitar but not an impossible task.
Guitar looks cool tho.
B.Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7 |
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Jon Light
From:
Saugerties, NY
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Posted 14 Apr 2023 12:46 pm
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| Bengt Erlandsen wrote: |
My Zumsteel S12extE9 have 7 pedals and 7 knee levers so the 6 pedals you have there seem to be all good to me :)
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Point taken, Bengt!
I'm not up to speed on Ext E9 possibilities. I've always played Uni and all my cool extra discoveries have ended up on knees (8). |
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