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Topic: Recorded examples of re-entrant tuning on non-pedal steel |
Martin Lindsay
From:
Brevard, NC
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 10:17 am |
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I have come across a few vintage 7-string lap steels which all seem to be set up for re-entrant tuning (based on nut / saddle slots for the 7th string).
I can see the aim is accent more than extension with the added 7th string and re-entrant tuning. However, having a bit of difficulty getting a sense of this or how it’s used (some great old steel players rarely venture below 4-5 strings!). I have listened to players like Joaquin Murphey purported to use re-entrant tuning, and I think I hear something a bit out of the ordinary that may be attributed to re-entrant tuning, but I’m not sure.
If anyone could steer me to YouTube videos of tunes that seem to exemplify re-entrant tuning and perhaps describe what to listen for where in the recording/performance, that would help educate my “tin” ear a bit.
Thanks in advance. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Martin Lindsay
From:
Brevard, NC
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 10:47 am
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| Wow, now I’m really in the deep end! |
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Will Ellis
From:
Nashville TN, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 7:32 pm
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I would think finding a recorded example would be quite difficult and require really specific timelines of players' tuning and recordings. Re-entrant tuning, as I understand it, isn't really a stylistic thing so much as it is a way of organizing the guitar in way that was harmonic and facilitated the ability to strum full chords but also get a note or two outside that chord.
_________________
Sho~Bud Professional D-10 (1972)
Fender Twin Reverb (1979) |
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Martin Lindsay
From:
Brevard, NC
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 7:53 pm
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Thanks, but surely there has to be a stylistic aspect to it that distinguishes it from other tunings. That’s what I hope to gain insights into. Even if someone could positively identify a recording or two where the steel is tuned to re-entrant tuning, this would be a start.
I look forward to more input from others here, particularly those who play a 7-string lap steel with re-entrant tuning. |
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Aaron Clinton
From:
Calgary, AB
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 8:38 pm
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The only person I am aware of who possibly used a re-entrant string stylistically is Freddie Roulette. Otherwise, I completely agree with Mr. Ellis. It is just a way of organizing strings, either to keep a string out of the way or to facilitate alternate picking for speed.
_________________
and don't forget to boogie! |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 9:09 pm
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@Martin,
I play 7 string almost exclusively, unfortunately not at a level that would justify a recording career. Though I’m not currently using a reentrant tuning, I’ve experimented with quite a few, and liked all of them.
I like to use the reentrant on string 7 to put in a note that would normally be at the string 2 or string 3 position of a different tuning... I’ve almost always used the reentrant string 7 for either the minor 3rd or the m7 root note.
Minor 3rd example, f D A D F# A D
Minor 7 root example, b D A D F# A D
In either case you wouldn’t hear anything stylistically different, but as a player, you have access to minor triads under a straight bar.
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Current Tunings:
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | DM9 – D A D F# A C# E
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 11:14 pm
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Check out Roy Smeck and Joaquin Murpehy, who used E C# A E C# g (a7th) and E C# G# E A# a# (F#9th) respectively.
Once you know the sound that Murphey is using, you really do hear it all over his 40s stuff, check out Guy Cundell’s video on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfCPyIICRX8
I’d imagine the best way to get an ear for re-entrant tunings is to play them! If you have a 7 string tune it up to E C# A E C# A g. Its very interesting. One Roy Smeck trick is to do a forward slant from the g string, so it is effectively an F#, giving any 3 note voicing from A6th.
Murphey also later used G E C A G E C# b; the b string can be used for C major 7th, but also for an A9th chord. I get a similar effect using C diatonic with a low C#: E C B A G F E C#. But I can’t slant from the b string like I mentioned in the Roy Smeck example above… might be some good stuff there.
Bobby Black actually had both tunings on his Fender Custom:
E C B A G F E C#
G E C A G E C# b
E C# B G# F# D B G#
I know Bobby Black, Tony Locke and Joaquin Murphey used that re-entrant tuning.
From memory, Kale Stiles (check him out on youtube) used some kind of C6th with a re-entrant B string in some videos.
As far as old period recordings from the late 30s and 40s, I am sure they are out there to be found. They may sound like E7th at first, but upon further investigation may prove to be that re-entrant A7th. Maybe Guy Cundell or Mike Neer know some? I know later Smeck LPs had both tunings E7th and A7th. |
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Martin Lindsay
From:
Brevard, NC
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Posted 16 Mar 2023 1:18 pm
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Thanks, Joe. These are exactly the sort of insights and info I was hoping to get. The Guy Cundell YouTube video was a great place to start.
Was hearing something in Murphey’s recordings that sounded unique, but I couldn’t quite put my finger on it - no pun intended.
I’ll take your recommendation to try re-entrant out and see if I can learn to dog paddle around in the deep end. 😊.
I also like to wrestle with blues/jump blues on steel (not Freddie Roulette style, mind you), so will experiment a bit. |
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Ethan Shaw
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 19 Mar 2023 7:18 pm
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| Hi Martin, I use a re-entrant A6 tuning as my main tuning. H-l: E C# A F# E C# A d# I mostly use it as a combination A6 and B11 tuning, where you get the advantages of both. The A6 stuff is all there, but you can also play the lush chords of B11. You'll hear it all over my youtube videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdFphd6qmJGzEZeMBTTz9fQ . It's also really useful when playing chord melodies, because you have both the 4th and 3rd in the root position 9th chord. |
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Andy Volk
From:
Boston, MA
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