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Topic: Tuning the knee levers and the pedals |
Cameron Bruce
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 2:24 am |
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Hello - I'm really hesitant to post on here about this, as it seems so rudimentary. I changed the strings on my new steel today, and I'm having trouble tuning everything. Specifically, the right knee lever, which I move to the right, is only lowering the note a semitone. I believe it's supposed to lower it a tone.
When I depress the knee leaver, and go to the nylon nuts at the end, I can get it down to F# with a lot of turns, but when I let go of the knee lever, it has lowered the whole string down to G.
Again, apologies if this is stupidly simple, but I'm a bit stumped about it.
I had something similar last week on the A pedal raising the E strings a tone - I couldn't get it right, and ended up breaking a string. Hence the new strings - and hence the new problem.
Any advice or YouTube or anything would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 4:11 am
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It sounds like the changer fingers may be slipping out of place when you remove the strings. Look underneath to see if they all look the same or if one or more fingers is not like the others, and also verify that all the return springs are intact and in place. While you're there check all the bellcranks to see that they are securely mounted and that there is enough slack in the action to not interfere with tuning when not engaged.
There is of course the obvious question of different string size, but I suspect you are already on top of that, and in any case this sounds more like a mechanical problem to me.
You came to the right place, someone here will be able to help sort it with you. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 4:35 am
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Sounds like the F# note you mention is string 6. Did you change it from a plain string to a wound string? Or from wound to plain. Doing either one of those things will affect the functioning of the knee lever. Most common mistake I have seen is going from plain to wound. To get that lever to function properly could just be as simple as making sure you have a .020 or .022 plain string. You could also increase the travel, of the lever so the string lowers farther and make sure there is a little slack in the rod to prevent the nylon nut from touching the finger when the lever is not activated. That is called "overtuning" , see the sticky at the top of this section on overtuning. I would first try a new .020 or .022 plain string.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Cameron Bruce
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 12:02 pm
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| Ahhh - it's definitely a wound string now - and I threw out the set of strings I removed- so I can't check. The new strings are Ernie Ball Stainless, which has a 0.022w string for string 6. I'll see if I can get a .022 plain string, and see if that helps. Might even get a 0.020 and see how that goes. |
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Cameron Bruce
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 12:03 pm
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| And thank you too, Dave - I will try the string thing first, and then get onto that more "technical" stuff if this doesn't work... |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 12:34 pm
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| Cameron Bruce wrote: |
| The new strings are Ernie Ball Stainless, which has a 0.022w string for string 6. I'll see if I can get a .022 plain string, and see if that helps. Might even get a 0.020 and see how that goes. |
You want an .022p or .024w. not an .020 because lighter strings need more movement for the same change. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 2:33 pm
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My preference is a .022 plain. I have had some sets that came with a .020, and that string just seemed to get lost in the mix. I do a lot of melody playing with all notes available with the 4 notes available (with a split) that I want that string to read stand out. I've always been partial to heavier gauged sets. I use a .012 on string 3, and .018 on string 5.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Henry Matthews
From:
Texarkana, Ark USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 3:36 pm
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What most people don’t realize is if your changing strings or just tuning, if you have to turn anything over one round, something is wrong. That is if guitar was in tune before. But yet people just keep turning tuners in or out and before long, it’s unplayable. You could have wrong gauge string on certain place or something else is wrong. You need to locate the problem before twisting anything into oblivion. Going up or down .02 on string, it won’t make that mush difference in tuning. One round on tuner either was should be able to tune.
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Henry Matthews
D-10 Magnum, 8 &5, dark rose color
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 1 Mar 2023 9:30 pm
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Hope this explains what causes the problem.
A 6th .022P is a solid .022 dia. of metal, A 6th .022 W has about .005 winding on the string. .005 + .005 = .010
is winding making the core only .012 dia. of metal. The smaller diameter core takes a longer pull to obtain the pulled note.
If .022W is replaced with a .022P takes a shorter pull.
Change from Wound to Plain, Or Plain to Wound will need changing positions in the Bell Crank under the Guitar.
That is why many players, Pick plain or wound 6th string and and order 6 sets or more at a time, So they do not have to change anything under the guitar.
I am off my soap box, I will get back in my cage. |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 2 Mar 2023 6:09 am
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Excellent explanation by Bobby.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Cameron Bruce
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 2 Mar 2023 11:12 am
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| Henry Matthews wrote: |
| What most people don’t realize is if your changing strings or just tuning, if you have to turn anything over one round, something is wrong. That is if guitar was in tune before. But yet people just keep turning tuners in or out and before long, it’s unplayable. You could have wrong gauge string on certain place or something else is wrong. You need to locate the problem before twisting anything into oblivion. Going up or down .02 on string, it won’t make that mush difference in tuning. One round on tuner either was should be able to tune. |
That's very good advice, and it makes sense. Because I'm new at this, those little things aren't quite obvious. But this is good - it's good to get to know the mechanics and knowing a little about what is actually going on with the instrument. |
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Cameron Bruce
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 2 Mar 2023 11:13 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
Hope this explains what causes the problem.
A 6th .022P is a solid .022 dia. of metal, A 6th .022 W has about .005 winding on the string. .005 + .005 = .010
is winding making the core only .012 dia. of metal. The smaller diameter core takes a longer pull to obtain the pulled note.
If .022W is replaced with a .022P takes a shorter pull.
Change from Wound to Plain, Or Plain to Wound will need changing positions in the Bell Crank under the Guitar.
That is why many players, Pick plain or wound 6th string and and order 6 sets or more at a time, So they do not have to change anything under the guitar.
I am off my soap box, I will get back in my cage. |
All makes sense to me. It was working before the string change, so a plain string will hopefully get me back on track. |
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Cameron Bruce
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 9 Mar 2023 1:46 am
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| Hi everyone. Changing to the .022P worked a treat. Thanks for all your input. It was very helpful. |
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