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Topic: Is this a Rickenbacker SW (edit: It's a J6) |
George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 4:38 pm |
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Here is a picture of my first electric Hawaiian steel guitar I bought circa 1953 from a pawn shop in Halifax with a matching Gaylord amplifier for $35. It was in better shape then. I sold it in 1962 to a chap I worked with in Montreal, by chance happened to meet him on a street in Toronto in 1982 and he GAVE the guitar back to me minus the amp (which had disappeared). The guitar is now just a wallhanger in my music room but still has all its sentimental feeling as my first electric steel. Some years ago, I saw it referenced as a Rickenbacker SW. But, I can't find any reference to IT, there seems to be a similar looking blond wood one called the SW.
Can anybody confirm or deny what it is please?
Thanks. Geo
As an extra, here it is on my lap at the Cossor Canada picnic in Halifax circa 1957. A can of beer on an amplifier became a definite no no, as "cold beer spilled on hot tubes don't make a good mix"
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me"
Last edited by George Rout on 20 Feb 2009 1:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Michael Kienhofer
From:
Goulais River,Ontario,Canada
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 6:16 pm
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| I have one just like this and too wondered about it,s identity |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 6:52 pm
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Have you had yours a long time Michael?
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Richard Shatz
From:
St. Louis
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Posted 19 Feb 2009 8:33 pm
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George,
That's a J-6. |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 10:10 am
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Hi Richard and thanks for your comment. Is it catalogued somewhere? I've never seen it referred to as a J6. Thanks.
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Michael Kienhofer
From:
Goulais River,Ontario,Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 12:35 pm
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| Geo It was given to me just a few years ago,but I love the sound and the position of the volume control for Swells!Not to mention the cool looking horseshoe pickup. |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 1:05 pm
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Back to Richard Shatz, Richard, attached is a picture on Page 122 of Lorene Rymar's great book "Hawaiian Steel Guitar And It's Great Hawaiian Musicians".
The J6 is shown as a different instrument. Actually, I'm faviliar with the J6 because when I got my SW??, my buddy bought his J6 and he still has it.
If you can add any comment to this, I'd appreciate it. It was several years ago, where I saw mine was an SW so I'm assuming that is correct. I always like to verify items.
Looking forward to your comment Richard
George
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Jon Nygren
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 1:36 pm
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These seem to predate the S100 series, which were just the student model 6 string wood bodied guitars. The SW series came in both eight and six string models and had a volume and tone control.
I have seen another one of these triangular guitars on ebay...didnt know if it really was a rick at the time, but apparently it was because there are more of them! Maybe they briefly changed the metal guitar shape to the metal triangluar shape, then replaced it with the s100? |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 1:54 pm
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Thanks Jon for your input. Nothing could be simpler than the SW except a flat piece of wood. It is simply a piece of painted sheet metal bent over a piece of 3/4 inch plywood with a separate piece of wood on the pick-up end. Like the J6's, it was filled with cotton batten to keep the hollowness sound out of the box. It definitely was a student guitar. I've never seen another one, although,I have seen some pictures. While it still plays, it's just a wallhanger in my music room.
I graduated from a Stella guitar to an S.S. Stewart concert size (as they called them) to the SW!!!!! Thanks again for your note.
George
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 3:38 pm
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I believe the guitar identified by Ruymer as a J6 is actually a model NS, the postwar version of the model 59. On the next page (123) she identifies the the triangle guitar in question as a model SW. I believe this is wrong. I have her book and enjoy reading it, but it seems to contain a lot of factual errors.
The SW and DW are both all wood (single wood and double wood?) and can be seen in this 1953 catalog
https://www.rickenbacker.com/catalog_booklet.asp?pages=8&catalog=53
I've never seen any newer model re-use the older model designation. I guess the A-22 is an exception. There are some big differences between the earlier and later ones.
Anyway, I don't know if J6 is correct, but I'm pretty sure it's not an SW.
Fred |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 3:51 pm
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Hello Fred and thanks your input also. The one in question identified as an SW on the next page is actually mine, you'll see my name below it. But SW for single wood etc. makes sense.
On one site which I was browsing looking for data, there was some mention like "if the guitar was made by Electro.....,", actually it wasn't referring to mine, but that's what it says on mine, Rickenbacker Electro, was there somebody else who took over, or in parallel made guitars for Ric. I can't see it being made ruing the war because of the metal, and in fact, I suspect it's nothing short of an "economy" model.
I'm going to post the pic on the ESGF and see if by chance it attracts any comment there.
I'm really interested now in that it's not an SW!!!
Thanks to all.
George
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Mark Durante
From:
St. Pete Beach FL
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 4:15 pm
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| I don't believe it to be a J-6 or SW. It apparently was a short lived model just prior to the SW and the S-100 series. Catalogs, brochures and price lists from 1950 to 1953 when Adolph sold the company seem to be non-existant, at least I've never seen any. |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 4:32 pm
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Thanks Mark, the mystery deepens!!!!!
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Fred
From:
Amesbury, MA
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Posted 20 Feb 2009 4:44 pm
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George,
| Quote: |
| but that's what it says on mine, Rickenbacker Electro, was there somebody else who took over, or in parallel made guitars for Ric |
Adolph Rickenbacher formed the Electro String Instrument Co. to manufacture Rickenbacher guitars, pickups and amps. Rickenbacher was americanized ti Rickenbacker in the late 1930's, but old name plates were used as late as the late 40's. F.C. Hall bought Electro in 1953 or 54. In 1965 he and his wife formed a new company called Rickenbacker. Electro manufactured guitars and Rickenbacker sold them.
That should be clear as mud.
Fred
By the way, this info comes from Tom Wheeler's book American Guitars. |
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Mark Durante
From:
St. Pete Beach FL
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Posted 21 Feb 2009 9:36 am
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The mystery does deepen. This J6, does anyone have a listing or picture of any sort?
The main reference to it seems to be in Gruhn's book where he mentions the J6 grey or brown metal body introduced in 1957 replaced by the J8 in 1961 discontinued in 1963. How could George's guitar bought in 1953 be one of these? |
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Richard Shatz
From:
St. Louis
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Posted 21 Feb 2009 12:38 pm
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| Mark Durante wrote: |
The mystery does deepen. This J6, does anyone have a listing or picture of any sort?
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Mark Durante
From:
St. Pete Beach FL
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Posted 21 Feb 2009 12:51 pm
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I'm not trying to be contentious but I was hoping to get a picture from a catalog or something that would identify the guitar with the model number.
Richard , are you standing by Gruhn's listing? How do you explain these guitars being made prior to 1957 then? Why do they all have features associated with the 1950 to 1953 years? |
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Richard Shatz
From:
St. Louis
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Posted 21 Feb 2009 3:49 pm
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Mark,
I don't want to be argumentative. I'm just stating an opinion. The facts seem to be elusive.
I've never seen a picture of a J-6 in a catalog or book.
I don't understand the discrepancies either, and while I know Gruhn's Guide is not completely accurate, it's about the best source available. So, if you use that source as a guide, by process of elimination the J-6 must be the one pictured, because all the other metal body, single neck lap steels (NS, SD and Model G) had a guitar shape and are well known models.
That leaves the J-6/8, for which Gruhn's Guide indicates there are no specs available.
If George says he bought his used in 1953, that indicates that model was made prior to the years Gruhn states were the production years. I once saw a Model 100, which according to Gruhn and some catalogs I've seen weren't made until 1956 with a "Rickenbacher" decal. Those decals were supposedly used until about 1953 even though the name of the company was changed in the late 40s. Go figure. |
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Brad Bechtel
From:
San Francisco, CA
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Posted 21 Feb 2009 4:33 pm
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Have you tried contacting Rickenbacker directly to see if they can help identify this particular model? Their literature archive does not contain pictures of this particular guitar.
_________________
Brad’s Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
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Jon Nygren
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 21 Feb 2009 4:41 pm
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| Richard Shatz wrote: |
| I once saw a Model 100, which according to Gruhn and some catalogs I've seen weren't made until 1956 with a "Rickenbacher" decal. Those decals were supposedly used until about 1953 even though the name of the company was changed in the late 40s. Go figure. |
My old 100 had pots that dated early '54!(most definitely were original)... granted they could have been leftover and used later, I suppose. But 2 years later? It also had volume and tone controls on opposite sides...i've only seen one other 100 like it, must have been an early run.
Good chance we'll never really know for sure what those triangular things were called...wish they stamped the model name somewhere! |
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Mark Durante
From:
St. Pete Beach FL
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Posted 21 Feb 2009 6:27 pm
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Sometimes it's hard to pick out the truth from the misinformation, sometimes not, even on Rickenbacker's web site there are obvious incorrect dates for some of their catalogs.
George's is the only one of these I've seen with that knob placement too. The mystery continues........ |
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Mark Durante
From:
St. Pete Beach FL
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Posted 8 May 2010 5:13 am
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Since it seems there are no other more pressing issues in the world at this time I have decided to resurrect this thread with some additional information. While I do not have a complete set of price lists, from what I do have these are my findings:
1. George's model is indeed a J-6, although it is listed in the 1957 pricelist it is noted that it is not pictured in the catalog itself.
2. The only other earlier 50's pricelists I have are '54 and '55 in which the model is not listed,BUT,in the '55 list under the heading "Patent Heads" there is this line:
"1000 6 string- Models J, JD, 8 and Ace.......$3.00" |
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George Rout
From:
St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada
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Posted 8 May 2010 7:58 am
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Hi Mark and thanks for your continued effort. I hope you have not been losing sleep over this since the thread began in February of last year.
I took Hawaiian gutiar lessons in 1948 and 1949. Maybe I'm wrong on the 1953 year of purchase, but I was enthusiastic and quite sure it was 1953, maybe 1954, when I bought that Ricky.
I do not have ANY picture from a cataolgue or book of the guitar. Unless it's a copyright problem, is it possibile for someone to post a picture from a Ricky price list or a book.
Thanks again for resurecting the subject. If anybody (in Canada) has an old Simpson's or Eaton's catalogue (they were our two major department stores), maybe it was sold through them because it was a matching set (that is the amp and the guitar case). It was a Gaylord little 5 watter job. Has anybody seen a Gaylord amp???
Geo
_________________
http://georgerout.com
"I play in the A Major tuning. It's fun to learn and so easy to play. It's as old as the hills....like me" |
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Bill Creller
From:
Saginaw, Michigan, USA (deceased)
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Posted 8 May 2010 8:03 am
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There seem to be many obscure areas in the Rickenbacher history. They were not very good at keeping records of guitars produced in the old days.
Seems like later post war guitars were made of left-over parts from more than one model etc. Like a late bakelite with a logo plate from a console, attached to the head stock, and pre-war bodies with string-thru arrangement and a post-war neck, etc
Of course they never dreamed that people were gonna care about all this 70+ years later  |
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Michael Lee Allen
From:
Portage Park / Irving Park, Chicago, Illinois
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Posted 8 May 2010 9:44 am
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DELETED
_________________
"Wisdom does not always come with age. Many times age arrives alone."
Last edited by Michael Lee Allen on 26 Feb 2011 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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