| C6th 5th string G-F, or 6th string E-F and why? |
| G-F |
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28% |
[ 4 ] |
| E-F |
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71% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 14 |
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| Author |
Topic: C6th - 5th String G-F, or 6th String E-F |
Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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scott murray
From:
Asheville, NC
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Posted 22 Jan 2023 7:00 pm |
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Buddy went with E to F, at least on some of his guitars.
I prefer it for a few reasons:
it's similar to the B pedal on E9.
the F and G notes combined give you strummed chord options like add9 (root on string 9), or minor 11 (root on string 10 when raised a whole tone)... unlike the E and F notes combined.
dominant 7#5 (augmented) chord with pedal 8.
_________________
1965 Emmons S-10, 3x5 • Emmons LLIII D-10, 10x12 • JCH D-10, 10x12 • Beard MA-8 • Oahu Tonemaster |
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Ron Funk
From:
Ballwin, Missouri
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Posted 22 Jan 2023 8:43 pm
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Hi Dale -
I raise Sixth string E to F
and while you're at it, consider also Lowering 2nd string from E to Eb
Doing both on same lever (or vertical, as is my setup) yields 'the opposite of Pedal 6 change"
Good for a lot of alternate voicings.
Ron |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 22 Jan 2023 10:55 pm
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I actually have both.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2023 7:40 am
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Thank you gentlemen, all good things to think about. I've heard the reverse 6th pedal and intrigued by it.
Right now I lower 5 to F and raise 10 to D, and mostly just use the 5th string of that change as a Maj7th, or a resolve from raising the A's to that. If I could figure out a way to put a hardish half stop on it to stop at F# I'd use it in conjunction with the 7th pedal and then wouldn't have to 2 foot the 7th with the 5th pedal.
I tend to "TRY" to have it all but with all things there are trade offs. Like Richard I'd love to be able to have them both, but WHERE???
Sorry for the ramble, but stuff like this is like putting a stick in my brain and scrambling it all up.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 Jan 2023 9:02 am
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Here's my setup
| Tab: |
LKL LKV LKR 4 5 6 7 8 RKL RKR
D..................D#
E.......................D#......F
C...................................D.......B.....C#
A............Bb.....................B...Ab
G..................F.......F#
E.......................F.......D#
C.....C#
A............Bb
F.....E....................F#
C.....A....................D
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_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 23 Jan 2023 4:21 pm
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| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
Here's my setup
| Tab: |
LKL LKV LKR 4 5 6 7 8 RKL RKR
D..................D#
E.......................D#......F
C...................................D.......B.....C#
A............Bb.....................B...Ab
G..................F.......F#
E.......................F.......D#
C.....C#
A............Bb
F.....E....................F#
C.....A....................D
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Richard, what all do you use your 4th pedal. I don't use my "standard" 4th pedal very much, but once in a while with my 5th pedal. The 4th pedal would definitely let me have both the E-F and G-F as well ... might have to give that a whirl.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Richard Sinkler
From:
aka: Rusty Strings -- Missoula, Montana
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Posted 23 Jan 2023 11:03 pm
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| Dale Rottacker wrote: |
| Richard Sinkler wrote: |
Here's my setup
| Tab: |
LKL LKV LKR 4 5 6 7 8 RKL RKR
D..................D#
E.......................D#......F
C...................................D.......B.....C#
A............Bb.....................B...Ab
G..................F.......F#
E.......................F.......D#
C.....C#
A............Bb
F.....E....................F#
C.....A....................D
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Richard, what all do you use your 4th pedal. I don't use my "standard" 4th pedal very much, but once in a while with my 5th pedal. The 4th pedal would definitely let me have both the E-F and G-F as well ... might have to give that a whirl. |
Honestly, I don't use it very much. It gives me the Cdim chord on the higher strings, and the 'B' ped sus 4 chord and an F chord in the middle of the tuning. One my my criticisms of the C6 tuning was a lack of an F note in the middle. I use the knee lever that lowers the G to F a lot more. With P6, it is nice to be able to drop the 9th tone on string 5 to a root and move it back to the 9th for movement in the chord. If I had a 12 string C6, I would also have the G on string 3 with the same lower to F. I also added the D to D# on string 1 on the lever that gives me the b7 of the F9 chord up high instead of on string 5. If I had a third leg with more knee levers, the string 1 change would be on it's own lever so I could use it with P6 and still have the 9th on string 5. I've been lowering string 5 to F a lot longer than having the reverse pedal 6 change. Pedal 4 also lowers my B strings on E9 to Bb.
_________________
Carter D10 8p/8k, Dekley S10 3p/4k C6 setup,Regal RD40 Dobro, Recording King Professional Dobro, NV400, NV112,Ibanez Gio guitar, Epiphone SG Special (open D slide guitar) . Playing for 54 years and still counting. |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 24 Jan 2023 12:44 am
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I already have the equivalent of E-F as I play a uni.
G-F is what P7 is for.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Roger Rettig
From:
Naples, FL
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Posted 24 Jan 2023 6:04 am
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On my D10, I have the E to F.
I wanted to lower the G (and raise the 10th to D), but I was unable to accomplish the change under my guitar. (I skilled tech could do it in his sleep, of course.) I got the note to lower but it was too sluggish.
I briefly had both Es raising to F but, after a conversation with Sez Adamson, I considered the logic of just raising 6 to F. I've put it on my MKV and I'm using it constantly. It's far more useful on a KL than a pedal.
On my yet-to-be-delivered Williams D13, I will have the equivalent on my B pedal (raising both F#s to G) but I intend putting the equivalent A to G lower on LKV (along with raising the 12th from D to E).
I'm a late student of C6: my first instincts were to get as much parity with E9 as possible (hence raising both Es to F), but I'm now realizing that C6 needs to retain its own character. Just raising the 6th gives me a maj7 add9. It has more applications than raising both.
I voted to raise 6, but I'd like both. 
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, Quilter TT-12 & TT-15, B-bender Teles and Martins - and, at last, a Gibson Super 400!
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 24 Jan 2023 8:02 am
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Thanks Roger, I was just looking at Bucks setup and he has E-F on his 4th pedal, which would allow me to leave my G-F on MKL as is. I also noticed that Jody raises his E-F, but different application as its part of his Jernigan pedal which is also his 4th pedal. IF I want to have them both, and you know how much I hate giving up anything, then that 4th pedal may be the way to go.
Will probably change that on the Ritt first to see how I like it, and it's a bit easier/quicker to change than on the MSA. Yet will probably procrastinate on that a while longer.
AND, I'd still like to figure out a way of putting a positive half stop on MKL to better hit that F# on the way to F.
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Christopher Woitach
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2023 5:04 pm
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Maybe someone already said this, but Maurice did both on his last copedent, which is on my guitar. They serve different purposes, and I couldn’t live without either.
_________________
Christopher Woitach
cw@affmusic.com
www.affmusic.com |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Posted 25 Jan 2023 5:11 pm
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| Christopher Woitach wrote: |
| Maybe someone already said this, but Maurice did both on his last copedent, which is on my guitar. They serve different purposes, and I couldn’t live without either. |
Well... I changed my 4th pedal of my Rittenberry from standard A's - B's and put the reverse 6th pedal on it. I like the change, but haven't found many places to use it, though perfect for starting The Shadow Of Your Smile along with the A's - Ab... That said, talking to Mitchell putting that change on the MSA, although possible would require a lot of work and dismantling accomplish. The rigors of having 40 BaZillion rods under there... it IS Crowded... I really wish I could change it without much fuss on the MSA as that guitar plays like a dream... I just don't want to send it to Mitchell to make it happen... I like Mitchell, he doesn't deserve that.   
_________________
Dale Rottacker, Steelinatune™
https://www.youtube.com/@steelinatune
*2021 MSA Legend, "Jolly Rancher" D10 10x9
*2021 Rittenberry, "The Concord" D10 9x9
*1977 Blue Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom 8x6
https://msapedalsteels.com
http://rittenberrysteelguitars.com
https://www.telonics.com/index.php
https://www.p2pamps.com
https://www.quilterlabs.com |
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Rick Schmidt
From:
Prescott AZ, USA
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Posted 28 Jan 2023 6:58 pm
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For what it’s worth, here’s my 12 string C6
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2023 11:29 am
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When did the change go to G-F from G-F#? I must have been sleeping in class?
_________________
2013 Williams D-10, 2019 Williams D-10, 1970 Fender Twin, Evans SE200, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Hilton pedal, Jagwire Strings. |
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John Swain
From:
Winchester, Va
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Posted 30 Jan 2023 12:40 pm
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| Craig, p5 G-F# is mandatory. Dropping on a knee lever to F is additional! |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 30 Jan 2023 1:44 pm
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Thank-you John
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2013 Williams D-10, 2019 Williams D-10, 1970 Fender Twin, Evans SE200, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Hilton pedal, Jagwire Strings. |
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Craig A Davidson
From:
Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2023 1:34 pm
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On my older Williams I have pedal 6 reverse on a knee lever. Raising 6 and lowering 3. On my other Williams I have it on the fourth pedal instead of raising the A's.
_________________
2013 Williams D-10, 2019 Williams D-10, 1970 Fender Twin, Evans SE200, Fender Tonemaster Twin, Hilton pedal, Jagwire Strings. |
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